From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 01:22:31 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 02:18:07 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <515.70e27050.324fd72f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C1447477.340B%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
A potpourri of thoughts -
Further reflection tells me that it?s not images per se that bother me.
It?s the difference between no detail, no context in the drawing and
something from which to make inferences. Clues, context for meaning. Bohm
has some interesting things to say on visual thinking/images, folding, and
the teacher I mentioned followed up with the classic Arnheim ?Visual
Thinking?, and Langler, among other things.
And ? drawing is used with traumatized children to try to uncover what
traumatized them. Puppets, too.
I can remember once when I was very small, I made a drawing and told a
friend that it was to be read with the opposite meaning of the figures. The
friend gave me a blank look, and I never tried it again. So people can
assign their own contradictory meanings to commonly held symbols. How would
we know that, without words?
Maybe the space has to be safe enough for all members of a group to add
detail and meaning to anything they do. Ambiguity can be a shield. Put
downs, a form of verbal abuse, make people withdraw, hide, or purposely
irritate those who put them down.
It would be interesting to see how many in a group came up with similar
interpretations of the same drawing.
As for dreams and imaging, I think that dreams are our natural way of
creating symbols ? images.
How?d the gig go?
Also, since some people enjoyed the posting that I couldn?t send to your
personal email, do you think we should continue those posts on the board
until somebody objects? k
On 9/30/06 10:20 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Absolutely! I think Assagioli did some work on "subpersonalities" - so I'd
> love to try an experiment with a dialogue between the "critial Mark", the
> "parental Mark", the magical Mark" etc - and it's also quite a helpful concept
> to allow me to think about how I might react to something from these various
> elements of me...I think Bohm in "On Dialogue" talks about it being possible
> to have a dialogue with oneself, and this is the closest I can get to
> understanding how that might be possible.
>> Hey Mark ? I never thought of dialoging with different elements of my
>> personality, but why not?! k
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 01:26:17 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 02:21:48 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C143E6DF.74A2%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Speech has its own music. One can derive a song melody from the tonal
shapes and rhythmic flow of speech. Don't understand the difference between
a musician and a singer, tho. k
On 9/30/06 11:18 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want me
>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps you
>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>> address.
>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>> might be
>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>> www.fier.com
>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>> international
>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>> in
>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>> place.
>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>> remember
>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>> much
>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>> and
>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>> your
>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>> down? to
>>>> children.
>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>> complete
>>>> original
>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>> You
>>>> most likely
>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>> and
>>>> essential to its
>>>> understanding. It is
>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>> microcosm,
>>>> and back again,
>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>
>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>> of
>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>> because I
>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>> patterns,
>>>> structure,
>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>> base on
>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>> challenging,
>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>> infinite.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>> board
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Best, k
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
> 208 376-1336
> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>
>
> "Love is never earned . . .
> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 02:58:42 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 03:54:39 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
In-Reply-To: <20061001100003.AC219235A0@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF107BE136.8861B3AF-ON852571FA.0002AEBE-852571FA.00055FF0@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Don, Im glad you included the poem.
Being as inclusive as possible is one thing -- but this is a Bohm_dialogue
-- and boundary might well be drawn at a point where personal insults are
regularly forwarded from list members.
It seems that Kirsten/Peter had no intention of dialoguing with this list
without exhibiting their pleasure show of personal insult.
Aside from that, K/P displays parent-issues that youngsters adore; a real
rebel. It would be so cool for K/P if they could get themselves kicked off
this list. So fine, lets help K/P be cool._R
.
.
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:51:58 +0100
From: Don Factor <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
.
On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list.
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:46:59 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:42:32 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <00a001c6e4af$5a28f080$4317153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <C1449653.74CA%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
I think more in terms of all the many varieties of key, tempo, rhythm, use
of dissonance and resolution, etc. all evoke different moods and feelings,
just as words can do this.
Lynne
On 9/30/06 10:41 AM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
> love reading about this. -- Lynne
>
> Me too, though I have very little musical talent.
>
> Looking at music as a language thought, and thinking Korzybski that words
> are pointers, some questions occurs:
>
> What does music "point to"?
> What does Jazz point to?
> What does 'church music' point to?
> The drum beat?
>
> Don L
>
>
>
> http://home1.gte.net/donlay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
>
> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want
>> me
>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps
>> you
>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>> address.
>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>> might be
>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>> www.fier.com
>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>> international
>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>> in
>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>> place.
>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>> remember
>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>> much
>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>> and
>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>> your
>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>> down? to
>>>> children.
>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>> complete
>>>> original
>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>> You
>>>> most likely
>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>> and
>>>> essential to its
>>>> understanding. It is
>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>> microcosm,
>>>> and back again,
>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>
>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>> of
>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>> because I
>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>> patterns,
>>>> structure,
>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>> base on
>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>> challenging,
>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>> infinite.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>> board
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Best, k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:49:50 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:45:23 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <F612CA1C-C10B-48FF-83F6-EA4F1236B19E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C14496FE.74CB%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Intention helps (as in a notebook and pen by the bed), and some of my
friends swear by vitamin B6 (I?ve never tried that, usually don?t have much
trouble remembering).
Lynne
On 9/30/06 10:42 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So how many of you did it take to come up with all this?
>
> I am especially intrigued with the notion of 'social memory'. At first glance
> I tend to think of the cause of this working in the opposite direction, but I
> will have to, I guess, dream on it tonight,
>
> Actually, i have tried using cheese for this purpose a number of times and
> sometimes it even works. I haven't kept track as which cheese works best
> though.
>
> don
>
>
> On 30 Sep 2006, at 16:46, MarkHarmer@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lynne, spooky you should mention this but I had one tiny element of a dream
>> which I then realised could have been telling me something about how we
>> extrapolate our view of quality, and led to a rich (for me) piece of writing
>> on "quality" and how in commerce we privilege the quantifiable and measurable
>> and "quick" over the qualitative - the contextual, relational, unmeasurable
>> aspect of how we see the world. Out of this I then had thoughts about the way
>> we process data as opposed to the way machines process data - and out of
>> this, some thoughts on how easily we as non-machines arrive at assumptions
>> based on the first data that we become aware of - and finally, how our "data"
>> gets into the group in the form of stories and discussion and becomes a
>> "social memory" which can (if we allow it to) influence our way of seeing the
>> world.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> All that from a brief bit of a dream. That was my first experience of using a
>> dream in this way - I must eat more cheese at nights!
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>> There is almost no end to the ?parts? of the ?personality? one can
>>> dialogue with. ?I?ve been exploring dreams (as in sleeping) for about 18
>>> years in a group. ?The main premise is that every element in a dream
>>> represents some part of yourself. ?One of the ways we explore what these
>>> parts are like is to dialogue with them. ?It can be fascinating, and often
>>> very revealing.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:56:45 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:52:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <be6.4718966.324fe58d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C144989D.74CD%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
I can share words, don?t know how to share the melody, though. This is one
I performed at a women?s writers retreat several years ago. (I play a
little simple guitar to accompany myself.) (Thanks for asking, Mark!)
If I could break the old taboos,
If I could touch.
If I could choose to speak the words
I?ve not yet thought.
If I could loose the powerful thing within me,
If I could let my power join with yours,
Then would the world come to rest, completely,
Then would my soul be at peace.
Lynne
On 9/30/06 9:21 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> I'm really interested in what you might have written if you're happy to share
> it. I love the idea of music / poetry etc - anything that's a sequence in
> time, as that "does it" for me in a way that still images really don't.
>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>
>> Lynne
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 06:05:45 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 07:01:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Maybe that (difference between a singer and a musician) is a remnant of my
old habit of not taking myself seriously. I love music, to listen, to sing,
to play a little guitar. I think music is more basic to the
created/unfolded world than people generally credit. So it's part of my
life as a mystic, too.
On 9/30/06 5:26 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Speech has its own music. One can derive a song melody from the tonal
> shapes and rhythmic flow of speech. Don't understand the difference between
> a musician and a singer, tho. k
>
>
> On 9/30/06 11:18 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want me
>>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps you
>>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>>> address.
>>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>>> might be
>>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>>> www.fier.com
>>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>>> international
>>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>>> in
>>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>>> place.
>>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>>> remember
>>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>>> much
>>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>>> and
>>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>>> your
>>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>>> down? to
>>>>> children.
>>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>>> complete
>>>>> original
>>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>>> You
>>>>> most likely
>>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>>> and
>>>>> essential to its
>>>>> understanding. It is
>>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>>> microcosm,
>>>>> and back again,
>>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>>> of
>>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>>> because I
>>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>>> patterns,
>>>>> structure,
>>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>>> base on
>>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>>> challenging,
>>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>>> infinite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>>> board
>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, k
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
>> 208 376-1336
>> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
>> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>>
>>
>> "Love is never earned . . .
>> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 09:39:26 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 10:40:38 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
References: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
<C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
About J.K and D.B:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:27:22 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:23:11 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
In-Reply-To: <OF107BE136.8861B3AF-ON852571FA.0002AEBE-852571FA.00055FF0@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F1522EE60C84C63534CF02AA81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Subscriber "_R",
can you please share with us some of those "insults"
i is listening .... lets 'see'
Kirsten
>Being as inclusive as possible is one thing -- but this is a Bohm_dialogue
>-- and boundary might well be drawn at a point where personal insults are
>regularly forwarded from list members.
>It seems that Kirsten/Peter had no intention of dialoguing with this list
>without exhibiting their pleasure show of personal insult.
>
>Aside from that, K/P displays parent-issues that youngsters adore; a real
>rebel. It would be so cool for K/P if they could get themselves kicked off
>this list. So fine, lets help K/P be cool._R
>.
>.
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:51:58 +0100
>From: Don Factor <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
>.
>On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
>
> > I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> > about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:32:26 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:28:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Cheese Factor
In-Reply-To: <F612CA1C-C10B-48FF-83F6-EA4F1236B19E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4F42EF57C71939CC8D379A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donf
'rent you putting on
a bit too munch
weight?
Love & Metabolism, Kibot
>Actually, i have tried using cheese for this purpose a number of times and
>sometimes it even works. I haven't kept track as which cheese works best
>though.
>
>don
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From vroneill at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:35:26 2006
From: vroneill at gmail.com (Veronica O'Neill)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:31:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <BAY107-F227184000B825201595F38A8190@phx.gbl>
<C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aa4c04700610010235q2b55b1d6yf5627971cb103c4d@mail.gmail.com>
Hello Katheryn,
How clear a definition do you think can actually be applied to any
particular word?
I'm interested in this from the point of view of translating poetry
where I believe the real challenge is to not fall into the trap of
applying a clear definition to any of the words. The original poem
offers endless interpretations; the task of the translator is to
present the poem in the new language with the same set of possible
interpretations. If clear definition is applied to the words, these
definitions are the translator's own interpretation, and the poem
changes.
Best wishes,
Veronica
How, without adding language
> that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as communicating
> your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
> why?
>
> P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>
> All the
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:35:55 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:31:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males, white
men ..... how come?
Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>About J.K and D.B:
>
>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Search—say hello!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:44:12 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:39:52 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <08B55550-9AEB-4E89-A705-4CEBBBE890A2@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F31A83C518806F4A577621A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donfneediremindyouexpresser,
>If you really want to be serious, the "line of thought" is pure TAS and
>need I remind you that ___________
Is there such a thinkgs as NOT" pure" (contaminated?) tas?
Or is the old man just (again) (a bit) full of it
Meaning those i'm-pure thinkgiiies
Love & Detergents, Kgbot
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Search—say hello!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:50:10 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:45:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F29484EBF5AD08A732CF5DCA81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Youcancallmeasyouwish ~
All those "too many"
That you 'dont like'
Are there, working away
Below your hood anyhow
So you/we might as well
'Keep' them in mind.
That said, let me ask
Can you give us a
SINGLE word that is
Less 'open' than any
Image.
Let's do that
And let's SEE what happens
BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
Love & %&^$^bh66, Kirsten
>Kris - thinking in this kind of image doesn't work for me because it's open
>to too many different interpretations. The image elicits too many diverse
>personal responses, based largely on memories. How, without adding
>language
>that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as
>communicating
>your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
>why?
>
>P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>
>All the best, k
>
>
>On 9/30/06 6:05 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > ok: http://www.tomveatch.com/else/tv/SergeyGutkinFH.jpg
> >
> >> ok:
> >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Abalone_board.jpg
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Is there anyone who wants to discuss ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ok:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ4WA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kbot
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> >>>
> >>
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.
> >>
>microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=
> >> hmtagline
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Try the new Live Search today!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
>G
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:52:07 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:47:42 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Kirsten/Peter
In-Reply-To: <009f01c6e498$0306ff70$016d153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F5F40AB07ED32CA638A9C5A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donl
>"i" is ('simply') a function, an operation of the system (TAS , Thought As
>a System), rather than the other way around. -- ???
>
>So what! What? -- dbl
Precisely
Love & Whoneedsdialog, Kirsten
>
>
>>Dear Mark ~
>>
>>"i" is ('simply') a function, an operation of the system (TAS , Thought As
>>a System), rather than the other way around.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>PS: good to see that somebody is actually asking questions around here
>>when somethinkg is ... fishiii
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Love & Scubadiving, Kbot
>>
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>>>Hi Ki,
>>>
>>>I have **no idea** what you mean!!
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Mark
>>>
>>>"It" thinkgs
>>>
>>>"Me"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ki
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>dialogue facilitator:
>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get today's hot entertainment gossip
>>http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:54:31 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:50:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <1367.AQQDWldUWH8=.1159635630.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
What happened to you
R images
Ki
_________________________________________________________________
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 12:15:03 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:10:40 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
References: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
<C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
<1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <A71AB33D-1256-4301-8E48-07056C2B7525@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
I've seen this piece before. Martin Gardner earned his living for
years as the resident skeptic at Scientific American and later at the
Skeptical Inquirer. I am not a fan.
I don''t know if he is still alive and writing, but there are others
too who make it their business to descredit anyone who steps outside
the bounds of what gets called by some, "normal science" and more
recently, "scientism". To show what lengths they go to to protect
their sacred paradigms Richard Dawkins earns his living as the Oxford
Professor of the explanation of science to the public. J Robert
Oppenheimer who was Bohm's mentor for doctoral thesis, said, later,
"If we cannot refute Bohm, we must agree to ignore him." And this was
still in his pre-Krishnamurti days.
Here is a quote from the Gardner piece which demonstrates his
purposeful misinterpretation of Bohm's work
"Bohm also flirted with panpsychism, the belief that all matter is in
some sense alive with low levels of consciousness. "Even the electron
is informed with a certain level of mind," Bohm said in an interview
published in Quantum Implications: Essays in Honor of David Bohm
(1987), edited by Basil Hiley and David Peat. Bohm's later writings
swarm with neologisms such as holomovement, rheomode, levate,
enfoldment, soma-significant, and implicate and explicate levels of
reality."
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 08:39, edgelink@no-log.org wrote:
> About J.K and D.B:
>
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 12:27:49 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:28:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1367.AQQDWldUWH8=.1159635630.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
:-)
>
>
>
>>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>
>
>
> Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>
> What happened to you
>
> R images
>
>
>
> Ki
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 12:30:10 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:31:11 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
Aur?lien
>
> Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males, white
> men ..... how come?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>
>
>>About J.K and D.B:
>>
>>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Search?say hello!
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 13:10:33 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:06:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F99B09AE0331240F4192DFA8190@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F99B09AE0331240F4192DFA8190@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A0A5727B-D40A-410D-8B35-DF443FEB7690@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
that we are avoiding the subject.
>
> Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
don
From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Oct 1 13:50:57 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:50:42 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
Message-ID: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here? Mostly, the
person would just disappear, unless someone bothered to notify us here.
- Franis
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:10:33 +0100 Don Factor
<donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> writes:
> This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
> that we are avoiding the subject.
>
> >
> > Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>
> He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>
> don
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 14:00:14 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:55:57 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Dalcoze
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF5A0B282F.D7572044-ON852571FA.004123F4-852571FA.0041F083@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Kathryn, yes I think it would be great if you would send some
of the Dalcoze which you find especially relevant to dialogue. _R
.
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Do you want meto send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze?
Best, k
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 14:04:18 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:59:54 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
References: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3E963FFC-85C2-45FB-B879-BDD0EBC6F3C6@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Interesting question. A number of times the server has automatically
deleted subscribers after
repeated bounces because of full mailboxes or closed accounts. Who
knows what actually
happened to these folks?
Do you thing that we should we all leave instructions with our next
of kin or executors to inform the list?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 12:50, Franis Engel wrote:
> How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here?
> Mostly, the
> person would just disappear, unless someone bothered to notify us
> here.
> - Franis
>
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:10:33 +0100 Don Factor
> <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
>> that we are avoiding the subject.
>>
>>>
>>> Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>>
>> He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>>
>> don
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 14:24:01 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:19:41 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFF4765EB3.9CE213BE-ON852571FA.00431EF7-852571FA.00441DF2@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Don L, I have been fortunate enough to spend considerable time
with Bohm, but have spent NO time conversing with Parmenides and
Heraclitus. Nor unfortunately read any books of their thinking -- which
raises a question; how could I have a clue of what Bohm was talking about,
if I hadn't met or read Parmenides and Heraclitus?
On the other hand, I am eager to pursue the line-of-thought that you refer
to, running from Parmenides and Heraclitus to Bohm. But some serious
reading and then some thought of my own -solo improv- is taking place._R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Why not go back a lot further, as does Bohm, to Parmenides, Heraclitus?
-- Don L
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:27:33 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:23:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] what kind of OS
In-Reply-To: <C143E0AC.33BC%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F9880E18CDE49B2CE11DCDA81E0@phx.gbl>
>Morning Kris -
>
>I think it's more important to hear your ideas on how change in people's
>thinking occurs, than for me to expound on the topic. I'd love to listen
>and
>respond to your insights. What kind of operation do YOU see here?
Good Afternoon Mammaliandcuriousk ~
That is a very good question
(And I wished more subscriber of this Chatgroup
Would ask -themselves- that)
Because the answers are pretty&ugly
(And I will start offering some in
Posts to come - little miniseries)
Let's just start with this one:
http://www.statistenverein.ch/image/gallery/seniorenausflug/Seniorenausflug%202.jpg
http://www.luterbach.ch/01gemeinde/pics/Seniorenausflug.JPG
Love & Kaffeekranzchen, Krrrri-sss
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Also - what would you truly like to be called? I don't think you should
>wear a mask unless you want to. And if you do want to, what kind do you
>want?
>Further - I'm very interested to know what kind of creative pursuits you
>prefer for your own self expression. Lest my meaning is nebulous, I mean
>like mine is music and the art of teaching.
>
>Love, and I can't Fillintheblanksfor you. k
>
>
>On 9/29/06 1:51 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Kathryn ~
> >
> > "operation"?
> >
> > hm
> >
> > what un'kind of operation (do you see) is (not) going on here?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Fillintheblanks, Kirsten
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >> Another option - don't get hooked into responding in kind. Read
>through
> >> the
> >> facade to the content beneath. The facade doesn't help create a safe
>space
> >> for many, but I have known many like him. They were insightful,
>creative,
> >> and talented, among other things - as I presently perceive him.
>Perhaps he
> >> sees his role (temporarily?) as a kind of gadfly. Pushing all of us
>along
> >> to think out of the Bohm box. And I am sure that as valuable as Bohm
>is,
> >> other thinkers have built on his ideas and added valuable contributions
>of
> >> their own. And, I believe KP gets input from us that propels his own
> >> understanding to new spaces. Which again is Bohm, as I understand him.
> >>
> >> He was one of the first to welcome me. That is a comment about his
> >> underlying attitude towards people, I believe.
> >>
> >> My sons freaked me out when I first heard them call each other "dog"!
>But
> >> they are inseparable, and take care of each other.
> >>
> >> Maybe he will realize that operating without anesthesia doesn't work
>for
> >> most of us, (we find other doctors who use anesthesia!) and find a
>better
> >> way.
> >>
> >> Anyway, that is my opinion. k
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> >>> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list. (For the
> >>> benefit of newcomers, this would be the third time that this person
> >>> has joined the list under different names and written in
> >>> pretty much the same way thus leading to this sort of discussion.)
> >>>
> >>> Here are just a couple of thoughts that occur to me while I am
> >>> writing this:
> >>>
> >>> He/she seems to want to get kicked off in order to prove some point,
> >>> He/she puts a lot of energy into attacking both the activity of
> >>> dialogue and some of those who are engaged in doing it, without
> >>> suggesting any alternative other than parrotting those
> >>> who would likely have considered it a waste of time.
> >>>
> >>> Further thoughts: would unsubscribing him/her be anti-dialogical? Is
> >>> suggesting that people simply delete offensive posts
> >>> any better? Does his/her continued presence add to or enrich our
> >>> explorations? Or, what if we told her/him, "You are
> >>> right. It is a waste of time, We are all going to quit,"?
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions on this topic?
> >>>
> >>> don
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> > et.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:32:13 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:27:51 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>
>Aurélien
>
> >
> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>white
> > men ..... how come?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
> >
> >
> >>About J.K and D.B:
> >>
> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:34:50 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:30:31 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
>:-)
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
KiKaKu
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
> >>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
> >
> > What happened to you
> >
> > R images
> >
> >
> >
> > Ki
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:37:20 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:32:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <3E963FFC-85C2-45FB-B879-BDD0EBC6F3C6@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F20973D21B679FE3F4C2C6DA81E0@phx.gbl>
>>How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here?
Who cares ....
And why ;-?
One Bone&head
As good&bad
As a(ny) 'other'.
Love & Bulk, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 14:33:40 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:34:55 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2130.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706020.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
K is not white !
> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
>
>
>
> Kirsten
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>
>>Aur?lien
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>>white
>> > men ..... how come?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >
>> >
>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >>
>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> >
>>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 14:40:25 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:36:05 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D0A349B4-9A99-415A-9DF1-FAB4132CFF74@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
does K count as white? In some circles B wouldn't have been either.
Here in the UK he would count as Asian even though he was raised by
upper class
English women and tutored by a white mail pederast. Bohm was a Jew and
as I understand it, white supremacists don't count them as white.
Oh my, all these distinctions...
So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc
> etc)
>
>
>
> Kirsten
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>
>> Aur?lien
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>> males, white
>> > men ..... how come?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >
>> >
>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >>
>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>> us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/
> direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 14:35:49 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:36:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2173.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706149.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>
>
>
>>:-)
>
> http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> KiKaKu
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>> >>
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>> >
>> > What happened to you
>> >
>> > R images
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ki
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>> Live
>> > Spaces
>> >
>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:43:39 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:39:19 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Dwight
In-Reply-To: <A0A5727B-D40A-410D-8B35-DF443FEB7690@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F332F6DEB216666F115A942A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donf, wellaugh, I guess that 's as good/bad a story as (2nd-time): "any
other"
Keep up&down a good&bad thought, any how, sir, senior
Love & Diaperschanger, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>don
)(
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:48:53 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:44:34 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] white, male, dead,,,,
In-Reply-To: <2130.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706020.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter) than that,
than K (and B)
"Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr Weller van
Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of the Theosophical
Society in the United States. Hubert was also chosen by Leadbeater and after
she left her husband, his mother brought him to India for special training.
After Krishna was found, Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
Separation from father
Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger brother Nitya
were educated at the Theosophical compound and later taken to England to
finish their education. His father, pushed into the background by the swirl
of interest around Krishna, ended up in a lawsuit against the Society to try
to protect his parental interests. As a result of this separation from his
family and home, Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya became extremely close
and in the following years they often travelled together. [...]
also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: edgelink@no-log.org
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>
>K is not white !
>
> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kirsten
> >
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
> >>
> >>Aur?lien
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
> >>white
> >> > men ..... how come?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
> >> >>
> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
> >> >
> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > info:
> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >> >
> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > dialogue facilitator:
> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:50:02 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:45:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <2173.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706149.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
http://cafe-mode.hautetfort.com/album/breakfast_at_tiffany_s/cover-dscn4576.jpg
>http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>:-)
> >
> > http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > KiKaKu
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
> >> >>
> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
> >> >
> >> > What happened to you
> >> >
> >> > R images
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Ki
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> >> Live
> >> > Spaces
> >> >
> >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > info:
> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >> >
> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > dialogue facilitator:
> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:56:37 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:52:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <D0A349B4-9A99-415A-9DF1-FAB4132CFF74@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
Deardonf,
Matteroffactlyspeaking:
Quite a few living whitemales are pretty&dead
Too
All
Ready
..... if he k'nows what she is 'saying'
Love & Reality & Checks, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
>
>don
>
>On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>>Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
>>
>>
>>
>>Kirsten
>>
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>>
>>>Aurélien
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>>>white
>>> > men ..... how come?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>>>us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > info:
>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >
>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>dialogue facilitator:
>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
>>Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/
>>direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:01:49 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:57:29 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] white, male, dead,,,,
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3069D19E-C407-480E-8A8A-CE37FC951BA3@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Tanning has two Ns/
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:48, kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter)
> than that, than K (and B)
>
> "Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
>
> This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
> conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr
> Weller van Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of
> the Theosophical Society in the United States. Hubert was also
> chosen by Leadbeater and after she left her husband, his mother
> brought him to India for special training. After Krishna was found,
> Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
>
>
> Separation from father
> Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger
> brother Nitya were educated at the Theosophical compound and later
> taken to England to finish their education. His father, pushed into
> the background by the swirl of interest around Krishna, ended up in
> a lawsuit against the Society to try to protect his parental
> interests. As a result of this separation from his family and home,
> Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya became extremely close and in
> the following years they often travelled together. [...]
>
>
> also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
>
>
>
> Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: edgelink@no-log.org
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>>
>> K is not white !
>>
>> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead,
>> etc etc)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kirsten
>> >
>> > --------------------------
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your
>> sentence ?
>> >>
>> >>Aur?lien
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>> males,
>> >>white
>> >> > men ..... how come?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>> ai_63693002
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> >> >
>> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>> us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > info:
>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >> >
>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>info:
>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>> Windows Live
>> > Spaces
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/
> minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:02:31 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:58:09 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1D040D39-A712-4EC2-9BC7-E16E2FBC931E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
MY Gawd is that you K?
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:50, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
> http://cafe-mode.hautetfort.com/album/breakfast_at_tiffany_s/cover-
> dscn4576.jpg
>
>
>> http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>:-)
>> >
>> > http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > KiKaKu
>> > --------------------------
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>> >> >
>> >> > What happened to you
>> >> >
>> >> > R images
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Ki
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>> Windows
>> >> Live
>> >> > Spaces
>> >> >
>> >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > info:
>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >> >
>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>info:
>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft
>> LifeCams
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/
>> default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/
> hotgossip
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:03:37 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:59:14 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7EF57543-72BD-4678-89D6-2F5C7E0D0B4F@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
C'mon pit, get her off the keyboard and stick up for the other side.
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:56, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
> Deardonf,
>
> Matteroffactlyspeaking:
>
> Quite a few living whitemales are pretty&dead
>
> Too
>
> All
>
> Ready
>
> ..... if he k'nows what she is 'saying'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Reality & Checks, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
>>
>> don
>>
>> On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead,
>>> etc etc)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kirsten
>>>
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>> I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your
>>>> sentence ?
>>>>
>>>> Aur?lien
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>>>> males, white
>>>> > men ..... how come?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>>>> ai_63693002
>>>> >
>>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?
>>>> locale=en- us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > info:
>>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>> >
>>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>>> Windows Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/
>>> msnnkwsp0070000001msn/ direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/
>>> spaces/features
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
> then map the best route! http://local.live.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 15:42:44 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:38:25 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Taningbusth
In-Reply-To: <3069D19E-C407-480E-8A8A-CE37FC951BA3@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2738CB18114AD7E8CFD2D7A81E0@phx.gbl>
>Tanning has two Ns/
>don
No, Mister, not this one ;-!
Love & Rulesaretheretobebroken*, kbot
* not just rules, that is
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:48, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>>Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter) than
>>that, than K (and B)
>>
>>"Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
>>
>>This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
>>conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr Weller van
>>Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of the Theosophical
>>Society in the United States. Hubert was also chosen by Leadbeater and
>>after she left her husband, his mother brought him to India for special
>>training. After Krishna was found, Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
>>
>>
>>Separation from father
>>Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger brother
>>Nitya were educated at the Theosophical compound and later taken to
>>England to finish their education. His father, pushed into the background
>>by the swirl of interest around Krishna, ended up in a lawsuit against
>>the Society to try to protect his parental interests. As a result of this
>>separation from his family and home, Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya
>>became extremely close and in the following years they often travelled
>>together. [...]
>>
>>
>>also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
>>
>>
>>
>>Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>>>From: edgelink@no-log.org
>>>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>>>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>>>
>>>K is not white !
>>>
>>> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc
>>>etc)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kirsten
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------
>>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>> >>
>>> >>Aur?lien
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>>>males,
>>> >>white
>>> >> > men ..... how come?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>>>ai_63693002
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>> >> >
>>> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>>>us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > info:
>>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >> >
>>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>info:
>>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >>
>>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>>>Live
>>> > Spaces
>>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>>>href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > info:
>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >
>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>dialogue facilitator:
>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/
>>minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
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>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 15:50:59 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:47:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <aa4c04700610010235q2b55b1d6yf5627971cb103c4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1454003.3439%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Good Morning -
There are many challenges facing a translator, particularly of poetry.
First of all, different languages present different perceptions and
interpretations of their experience - often of concepts not in another
language. For instance, translating between English and Navajo is very
difficult because they represent two cultures which do not see much of
anything in common. Yes, there have been translations, but...what they have
conveyed to English speakers is a concession of the conquered to the
conqueror. Remember, it was the language the Code Talkers used.
Second - rhythm, pitch contour and their relation to meaning, while similar
among Romance languages, doesn't work between Native American languages,
Japanese, or Chinese of any dialect, and English. Then, look at
translations from the original languages many operas were written in, to
English. They simply don't work from a singer's pov. That's why the Met
retains the original language, but provides closed caption translations as
the opera progresses.
I believe that Kris and I share enough of the same language to be more
accurate. If not, you make a good point as far as both dialoging with him
in his English, and his use of images. And - if not, he's done a remarkable
job of finding a way to communicate. I don't mind making a better effort to
meet him halfway. However, images have different degrees of complexity.
Compare the painters - realists, surrealists, Cubists, Impressionists, etc.
As for translation as interpretation, maybe one should stick with the amount
of ambiguity the poet put into the poem, if your language accommodates that.
My teaching license was Bilingual Spanish, I have studied French, German,
and Navajo. Among other responsibilities, I have prepared many bilingual
cultural presentations that required the same "whatever" to be presented in
a Spanish and an English version. My late husband was Navajo, and I
volunteered in a Navajo school in the Navajo nation in classes that were
teaching Navajo to Navajo children. Currently, I am tutoring a Chinese
Buddhist nun, fluent in Mandarin and Sanskrit, in writing in English so she
can pass examinations that will allow her to work on her doctorate. I began
accompanying singers and opera rehearsals when I was in grade school. So
that is the experience my comments come from. I know there are others with
more experience than that, but that's my 2 cents. Good luck with your
endeavors. k
On 10/1/06 5:35 AM, "Veronica O'Neill" <vroneill@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Katheryn,
>
> How clear a definition do you think can actually be applied to any
> particular word?
>
> I'm interested in this from the point of view of translating poetry
> where I believe the real challenge is to not fall into the trap of
> applying a clear definition to any of the words. The original poem
> offers endless interpretations; the task of the translator is to
> present the poem in the new language with the same set of possible
> interpretations. If clear definition is applied to the words, these
> definitions are the translator's own interpretation, and the poem
> changes.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Veronica
>
> How, without adding language
>> that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as communicating
>> your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
>> why?
>>
>> P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>>
>> All the
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 15:54:59 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:50:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <C14540F3.343C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I agree with you about the value of music. I would encourage you to take
yourself more seriously. You intrigue me with the last comment on your life
as a mystic. I'd love to hear more about that. Best, k
On 10/1/06 12:05 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
> Maybe that (difference between a singer and a musician) is a remnant of my
> old habit of not taking myself seriously. I love music, to listen, to sing,
> to play a little guitar. I think music is more basic to the
> created/unfolded world than people generally credit. So it's part of my
> life as a mystic, too.
>
> On 9/30/06 5:26 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Speech has its own music. One can derive a song melody from the tonal
>> shapes and rhythmic flow of speech. Don't understand the difference between
>> a musician and a singer, tho. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 11:18 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>>
>>> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want me
>>>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps you
>>>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>>>> address.
>>>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>>>> might be
>>>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>>>> www.fier.com
>>>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>>>> international
>>>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>>>> place.
>>>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>>>> much
>>>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>>>> down? to
>>>>>> children.
>>>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>>>> complete
>>>>>> original
>>>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> most likely
>>>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> essential to its
>>>>>> understanding. It is
>>>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>>>> microcosm,
>>>>>> and back again,
>>>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>>>> because I
>>>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>>>> patterns,
>>>>>> structure,
>>>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>>>> base on
>>>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>>>> challenging,
>>>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>>>> infinite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>>>> board
>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best, k
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
>>> 208 376-1336
>>> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
>>> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Love is never earned . . .
>>> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
> 208 376-1336
> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>
>
> "Love is never earned . . .
> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 15:58:51 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:54:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C1449653.74CA%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <C14541DB.343D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I absolutely agree, Lynn. k
On 9/30/06 11:46 PM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
> I think more in terms of all the many varieties of key, tempo, rhythm, use
> of dissonance and resolution, etc. all evoke different moods and feelings,
> just as words can do this.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9/30/06 10:41 AM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
>
>> love reading about this. -- Lynne
>>
>> Me too, though I have very little musical talent.
>>
>> Looking at music as a language thought, and thinking Korzybski that words
>> are pointers, some questions occurs:
>>
>> What does music "point to"?
>> What does Jazz point to?
>> What does 'church music' point to?
>> The drum beat?
>>
>> Don L
>>
>>
>>
>> http://home1.gte.net/donlay
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
>>
>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want
>>> me
>>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps
>>> you
>>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>>> address.
>>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>>> might be
>>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>>> www.fier.com
>>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>>> international
>>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>>> in
>>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>>> place.
>>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>>> remember
>>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>>> much
>>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>>> and
>>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>>> your
>>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>>> down? to
>>>>> children.
>>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>>> complete
>>>>> original
>>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>>> You
>>>>> most likely
>>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>>> and
>>>>> essential to its
>>>>> understanding. It is
>>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>>> microcosm,
>>>>> and back again,
>>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>>> of
>>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>>> because I
>>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>>> patterns,
>>>>> structure,
>>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>>> base on
>>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>>> challenging,
>>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>>> infinite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>>> board
>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, k
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
> 208 376-1336
> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>
>
> "Love is never earned . . .
> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:07:27 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:03:25 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <D0A349B4-9A99-415A-9DF1-FAB4132CFF74@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C14543DF.3441%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
does K count as white?
Why does this matter? k
On 10/1/06 8:40 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> does K count as white? In some circles B wouldn't have been either.
> Here in the UK he would count as Asian even though he was raised by
> upper class
> English women and tutored by a white mail pederast. Bohm was a Jew and
> as I understand it, white supremacists don't count them as white.
> Oh my, all these distinctions...
>
> So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
>
> don
>
> On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc
>> etc)
>>
>>
>>
>> Kirsten
>>
>> --------------------------
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>> I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>>
>>> Aur?lien
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>>> males, white
>>>> men ..... how come?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> About J.K and D.B:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>>> us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>> Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/
>> direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:18:46 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:14:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1454686.3443%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Kris - will you help me get accustomed to reading images without words?
Here is what I see. Would appreciate your feedback:
#1 a woman whom many would consider beautiful, dressed in the mask her
position in society and her self image expect and reflect. My associations
- superficial. Especially since she has dark glasses on. She doesn't "see"
beyond what her facade reflects. I would be very upset if that image had
been directed at me, because my life and who I am has been the repudiation
of all that.
#2 the monad that contains all possibilities. The human being at birth.
#3 more difficult. Things are not always what they seem, maybe. Two
startlingly different images together are one.
Yes, breaking rules could be a step towards Bohm's definition of creativity
- finding new structures. I believe we also need to know how and why the
old ones worked or didn't work.
Thanks, KuriousandsometimesdangerousK!
On 10/1/06 8:50 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
http://cafe-mode.hautetfort.com/album/breakfast_at_tiffany_s/cover-dscn4576.jp>
g
>
>
>> http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> KiKaKu
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>>>>>
>>>>> What happened to you
>>>>>
>>>>> R images
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ki
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>>>> Live
>>>>> Spaces
>>>>>
>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://ww
>>>> w.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
>>>
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.
>> microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=
>> hmtagline
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:20:16 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:16:15 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F20973D21B679FE3F4C2C6DA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14546E0.3444%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I care. k
On 10/1/06 8:37 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here?
>
>
>
> Who cares ....
>
> And why ;-?
>
> One Bone&head
>
> As good&bad
>
> As a(ny) 'other'.
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Bulk, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the new Live Search today!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 15:49:03 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:22:32 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFDC6469A9.9BE512D2-ON852571FA.004495E6-852571FA.004BE6E2@dialogos.com>
Rodger __I see glitch as an appropriate word to describe this particular
area of collective-neural-function.
Glitch: A sudden electronic signal such as results from a power surge or
temporary irregular supply of power.
For instance, in the restaurant business, instead of advertising I used to
dine celebrities, artists, etc. Either they would enjoy the food or they
wouldnt. I was confident they would.
And word-of-mouth would promote the food and how various so-and-so were
seen. It always seemed a more organic and effective way to reach people
than advertising.
But then the Restaurant Critics wrote unusually positive columns about our
places! Which we should be thankful for, but we dreaded, because too much
positive in those columns turned successes to nightmares.
Each time, after a positive review, there were line-ups of hungry diners
would wait from the host station out into the street -- just in case of a
cancelled reservation!
Restaurant ambience was altered to say the least, and the pressure on staff
went past a point of being fun.
This is a simple example of how I meant the word -especially- in regard to
potential influence that media have.
Incomparably more so in worldwide crisis situations.
P.S. sorry about the thesis. _R
.
.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:42:13 -0400
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
Good Morning, Rodger -
You have most effectively explained the first part of your thesis, but the
phrase beginning ?...especially? doesn?t seem to have supporting evidence.
k
.
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 16:26:51 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:22:33 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Chat_Group]to Don Lay
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF1359FBE0.5DB266DE-ON852571FA.004D71A1-852571FA.004F5D2F@dialogos.com>
Rodger__Sorry, probably just semantics, but I doubt we can know the purpose
of another person.
At best we can discuss beliefs about purpose with another person and
possibly share an understanding. Short of that, we might read material that
the other person wrote on their beliefs about their purpose.
Alternatively I would suggest that -a greater understanding of thought- is
a result of their living._R
.
.
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:59:13 +0200 (CEST)
From: edgelink@no-log.org
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Chat_Group]to Don Lay
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
.
Are you agree with me if I said that the purpose of these two guys is the
understanding of what is thought ?
.
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 16:31:20 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:27:00 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF67B2484F.769FFF9B-ON852571FA.004FB523-852571FA.004FC63B@dialogos.com>
Rodger__Funny you should say that, since that is exactly what is happening
in the minds of every reader who sees each word-symbol you write. _R
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:09:11 EDT
From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
.
I love the idea of making an image that could be interpreted in as many way
as there were people to interpret it.
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 16:37:32 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:33:12 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <C14543DF.3441%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <C14543DF.3441%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <DFA79967-4B2E-4B45-A338-556E6D62A07F@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
On 1 Oct 2006, at 15:07, Kathryn Arizmendi wrote:
> does K count as white?
>
> Why does this matter? k
it doesn't. It was only by way ot a
comment on Kristen's dead, white
males.
don
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:38:15 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:34:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] what kind of OS
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F9880E18CDE49B2CE11DCDA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1454B17.3449%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Morning Krrrri-sss -
This one's more difficult than Breakfast at Tiffany's. I shall have to
reflect a while. Maybe I'm just a little tired from reading all the posts,
because on second thought, it isn't. I just need a break. I think the
color of K's skin got to me, because I have fought against prejudice all my
life. I've seen what it can do to creative, intelligent, beautiful people I
have loved. I hope I jumped to the wrong conclusions - that my underlying
assumption was wrong.
Expect another post as the day goes on, and I dialog musically with myself.
Maybe I'll even get into expressing my thoughts in this language. What a
way to prevent Alzheimer's!
> Love & Kaffeekranzchen back at you. KuriousK
P.S. Kaffee, I understand. What's "kranzchen"?
On 10/1/06 8:27 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> Morning Kris -
>>
>> I think it's more important to hear your ideas on how change in people's
>> thinking occurs, than for me to expound on the topic. I'd love to listen
>> and
>> respond to your insights. What kind of operation do YOU see here?
>
>
> Good Afternoon Mammaliandcuriousk ~
>
> That is a very good question
>
> (And I wished more subscriber of this Chatgroup
>
> Would ask -themselves- that)
>
> Because the answers are pretty&ugly
>
> (And I will start offering some in
>
> Posts to come - little miniseries)
>
> Let's just start with this one:
>
>
> http://www.statistenverein.ch/image/gallery/seniorenausflug/Seniorenausflug%20
> 2.jpg
>
> http://www.luterbach.ch/01gemeinde/pics/Seniorenausflug.JPG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Kaffeekranzchen, Krrrri-sss
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> Also - what would you truly like to be called? I don't think you should
>> wear a mask unless you want to. And if you do want to, what kind do you
>> want?
>> Further - I'm very interested to know what kind of creative pursuits you
>> prefer for your own self expression. Lest my meaning is nebulous, I mean
>> like mine is music and the art of teaching.
>>
>> Love, and I can't Fillintheblanksfor you. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/06 1:51 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Kathryn ~
>>>
>>> "operation"?
>>>
>>> hm
>>>
>>> what un'kind of operation (do you see) is (not) going on here?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Fillintheblanks, Kirsten
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another option - don't get hooked into responding in kind. Read
>> through
>>>> the
>>>> facade to the content beneath. The facade doesn't help create a safe
>> space
>>>> for many, but I have known many like him. They were insightful,
>> creative,
>>>> and talented, among other things - as I presently perceive him.
>> Perhaps he
>>>> sees his role (temporarily?) as a kind of gadfly. Pushing all of us
>> along
>>>> to think out of the Bohm box. And I am sure that as valuable as Bohm
>> is,
>>>> other thinkers have built on his ideas and added valuable contributions
>> of
>>>> their own. And, I believe KP gets input from us that propels his own
>>>> understanding to new spaces. Which again is Bohm, as I understand him.
>>>>
>>>> He was one of the first to welcome me. That is a comment about his
>>>> underlying attitude towards people, I believe.
>>>>
>>>> My sons freaked me out when I first heard them call each other "dog"!
>> But
>>>> they are inseparable, and take care of each other.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe he will realize that operating without anesthesia doesn't work
>> for
>>>> most of us, (we find other doctors who use anesthesia!) and find a
>> better
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, that is my opinion. k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
>>>>> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list. (For the
>>>>> benefit of newcomers, this would be the third time that this person
>>>>> has joined the list under different names and written in
>>>>> pretty much the same way thus leading to this sort of discussion.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are just a couple of thoughts that occur to me while I am
>>>>> writing this:
>>>>>
>>>>> He/she seems to want to get kicked off in order to prove some point,
>>>>> He/she puts a lot of energy into attacking both the activity of
>>>>> dialogue and some of those who are engaged in doing it, without
>>>>> suggesting any alternative other than parrotting those
>>>>> who would likely have considered it a waste of time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Further thoughts: would unsubscribing him/her be anti-dialogical? Is
>>>>> suggesting that people simply delete offensive posts
>>>>> any better? Does his/her continued presence add to or enrich our
>>>>> explorations? Or, what if we told her/him, "You are
>>>>> right. It is a waste of time, We are all going to quit,"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions on this topic?
>>>>>
>>>>> don
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>> Live
>>> Spaces
>>>
>>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.>>
g
>>> et.live.com/spaces/features
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:45:20 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:40:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] white, male, dead,,,,
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1454CC0.344C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
??? What effect did this have on K's thinking? I was attributing K's ideas
solely to his Eastern cultural background. And where was this compound
located? Thanks, k
On 10/1/06 8:48 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger brother Nitya
> were educated at the Theosophical compound
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:46:06 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:41:44 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <DFA79967-4B2E-4B45-A338-556E6D62A07F@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C1454CEE.344D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I'm glad. I had jumped to the wrong conclusion. Thanks, k
On 10/1/06 10:37 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> On 1 Oct 2006, at 15:07, Kathryn Arizmendi wrote:
>
>> does K count as white?
>>
>> Why does this matter? k
>
> it doesn't. It was only by way ot a
> comment on Kristen's dead, white
> males.
> don
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:46:59 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:42:38 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <OF67B2484F.769FFF9B-ON852571FA.004FB523-852571FA.004FC63B@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C1454D23.344E%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Mark ? did you get my ?Potpourri? posting? I can?t seem to find it
anywhere! k
On 10/1/06 10:31 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger__Funny you should say that, since that is exactly what is happening in
> the minds of every reader who sees each word-symbol you write. _R
>
> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:09:11 EDT
> From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> .
> I love the idea of making an image that could be interpreted in as many way
> as there were people to interpret it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 16:48:28 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:44:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Dalcoze
In-Reply-To: <OF5A0B282F.D7572044-ON852571FA.004123F4-852571FA.0041F083@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C1454D7C.344F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Will do. k
On 10/1/06 8:00 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger __Hi Kathryn, yes I think it would be great if you would send some of
> the Dalcoze which you find especially relevant to dialogue. _R
> .
> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> .
> Do you want meto send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze?
> Best, k
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 17:03:09 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 17:58:54 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F29484EBF5AD08A732CF5DCA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14550ED.3452%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Guess that's me, Kris. I shall try the experiment you suggest. It will lie
buried in my subconscious while I work on improvising an Allemande. k
P.S. why is it ok for me to call you as I wish? Is it a statement of your
feelings about names?
Without curiosity, questions and answers, sharing, how can we learn - expand
our minds beyond egocentrism?
Naming people, in Navajo culture, consists of extracting a prominent,
identifying feature of a person and turning it into a name. "Dances with
Wolves" was because that's what most outstanding to the Lakota when they
first met him. In Puerto Rico, I was "La Americana". Maybe, at this point,
in the same spirit, I'd call you "Kaleidoscope Kris". Yes, naming does pin
things down. But I don't think it's the naming that's the problem. It's
what one does with it.
Coffee's done; I'm on oj now. It's called "Breakfast at the Computer"!
On 10/1/06 5:50 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Youcancallmeasyouwish ~
>
> All those "too many"
>
> That you 'dont like'
>
> Are there, working away
>
> Below your hood anyhow
>
> So you/we might as well
>
> 'Keep' them in mind.
>
> That said, let me ask
>
> Can you give us a
>
> SINGLE word that is
>
> Less 'open' than any
>
> Image.
>
> Let's do that
>
> And let's SEE what happens
>
>
>
>
>
>
> BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & %&^$^bh66, Kirsten
>
>
>
>
>> Kris - thinking in this kind of image doesn't work for me because it's open
>> to too many different interpretations. The image elicits too many diverse
>> personal responses, based largely on memories. How, without adding
>> language
>> that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as
>> communicating
>> your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
>> why?
>>
>> P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>>
>> All the best, k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 6:05 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> ok: http://www.tomveatch.com/else/tv/SergeyGutkinFH.jpg
>>>
>>>> ok:
>>>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Abalone_board.jpg
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there anyone who wants to discuss ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ok:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ4WA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Kbot
>>>>> --------------------------
>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.
>>>>
>> microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=
>>>> hmtagline
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Try the new Live Search today!
>>>
>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMT
>> A>
>> G
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search?Your way, your world, right now!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 17:43:53 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 18:39:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <C14550ED.3452%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <C14550ED.3452%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <00A1A94D-111D-40ED-9BD6-E894988CA459@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
What is the significance of the subject line of your post? Or do I
get to make one up for myself?
>>
>>
>> BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
It may be, but what kind of an image.
An image, say, of a cat, is limited in the way that a blue abstract
painting by Yves Klein is not. Although that is limited too. It is
doubtful that anyone would look at a Klein and say, Oh what a pretty
cat.
If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
don
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 17:50:56 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 18:46:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <00A1A94D-111D-40ED-9BD6-E894988CA459@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C1455C20.345F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I believe we have to think outside the limits of English, or at least, find
a way to adjust them. How would you draw "running"? Someone would have to
be doing it, no? Navajo has one word that encompassed that - a syllable to
express the verb, a syllable for our equivalent of the noun, and several
more syllables to correspond to other attributes of the image. In Navajo,
very little is left unsaid. There is very little that is generic.
On 10/1/06 11:43 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> What is the significance of the subject line of your post? Or do I
> get to make one up for myself?
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
>
> It may be, but what kind of an image.
>
> An image, say, of a cat, is limited in the way that a blue abstract
> painting by Yves Klein is not. Although that is limited too. It is
> doubtful that anyone would look at a Klein and say, Oh what a pretty
> cat.
>
> If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
> words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
>
> don
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 1 17:56:40 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 18:52:18 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
Message-ID: <4ac.58f004a.32513f38@aol.com>
Hi Kathy,
Thought I'd home in on this one first out of all the ones I've seen from the
group since late last night... I didn't get anything with that as the
subject, and if it did arrive it didn't go into my spam folder either...
Mark ? did you get my ?Potpourri? posting? I can?t seem to find it
anywhere! k
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Sun Oct 1 18:21:45 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 19:18:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
Message-ID: <20061001.122145.3964.79.ae.dropper@juno.com>
If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
don
The "range" is between similar and different,
not same and different.
Incidentally, "same" has no actual meaning. It means
"identical." Where two things are "identical" "they"
"are" not "two things," "They" "are" "itself."
Actually it is interesting to look closely at the
word "communicate." Both of its terms [com & unicate]
have to do with unification. And this is a given isn't it[?].
If so then, what the term communication might
refer to, is awareness of communication.
"Communication" is "nonstop" when it is noticed
that it is not about "sameness."
pat
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 1 18:26:56 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 19:22:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
Message-ID: <269.10c4f951.32514650@aol.com>
By the way referring to an earlier answer that I can't now find, I'd always
understood the root of the word "Glitch" comes from a jewish word meaning "to
slip":
If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
don
The "range" is between similar and different,
not same and different.
Incidentally, "same" has no actual meaning. It means
"identical." Where two things are "identical" "they"
"are" not "two things," "They" "are" "itself."
Actually it is interesting to look closely at the
word "communicate." Both of its terms [com & unicate]
have to do with unification. And this is a given isn't it[?].
If so then, what the term communication might
refer to, is awareness of communication.
"Communication" is "nonstop" when it is noticed
that it is not about "sameness."
pat
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 18:34:17 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 19:29:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <C1455C20.345F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <C1455C20.345F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7D1A8B97-73B0-4AB9-93AD-F1DF51FC92AB@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
I would have agreed with you until I saw that results of David Bohm's
rheomode experiment.
If you read the chapter in Wholeness and the Implicate Order that
describes the idea you
will see that it has a lot of simlarities to what you describe.
However, when he got the whole
physics department at Birkbeck College to try and use the
model,nobody was able to sustain
it and he finally dropped the idea. Since each language is learned at
a very early age from those
around the child, that grammar and the resultant way of modelling
reality is almost impossible to
get rid of entirely.
How does your Navajo stand up when you are talking with a native
Navajo speaker? Do you think
that the way the language models reality for you is the same as it is
for him?
Having said all this, I do agree that we need, in some way, to
understand that the way we each
understand the world is just one possible way amongst many.
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 16:50, Kathryn Arizmendi wrote:
> I believe we have to think outside the limits of English, or at
> least, find
> a way to adjust them. How would you draw "running"? Someone would
> have to
> be doing it, no? Navajo has one word that encompassed that - a
> syllable to
> express the verb, a syllable for our equivalent of the noun, and
> several
> more syllables to correspond to other attributes of the image. In
> Navajo,
> very little is left unsaid. There is very little that is generic.
>
>
> On 10/1/06 11:43 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> What is the significance of the subject line of your post? Or do I
>> get to make one up for myself?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
>>
>> It may be, but what kind of an image.
>>
>> An image, say, of a cat, is limited in the way that a blue abstract
>> painting by Yves Klein is not. Although that is limited too. It is
>> doubtful that anyone would look at a Klein and say, Oh what a pretty
>> cat.
>>
>> If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
>> words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
>>
>> don
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 18:42:03 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 19:37:45 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <269.10c4f951.32514650@aol.com>
References: <269.10c4f951.32514650@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01EF79EF-0701-455F-8B1B-AE9D281F0FB4@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
The Oxford American Dictionary gives the following:
ORIGIN 1960s(originally U.S.): of unknown origin. The original sense
was [a sudden surge of current,] hence [malfunction, hitch] in
astronautical slang.
But you may be right. I mean what do they know?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 17:26, MarkHarmer@aol.com wrote:
> By the way referring to an earlier answer that I can't now find,
> I'd always understood the root of the word "Glitch" comes from a
> jewish word meaning "to slip":
> If, as Rodger has suggested, all images are completely open and all
> words are images, then how do we communicate with each other at all?
>
> don
>
> The "range" is between similar and different,
> not same and different.
>
> Incidentally, "same" has no actual meaning. It means
> "identical." Where two things are "identical" "they"
> "are" not "two things," "They" "are" "itself."
>
> Actually it is interesting to look closely at the
> word "communicate." Both of its terms [com & unicate]
> have to do with unification. And this is a given isn't it[?].
>
> If so then, what the term communication might
> refer to, is awareness of communication.
>
> "Communication" is "nonstop" when it is noticed
> that it is not about "sameness."
>
> pat
>
> **********************
>
> Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
> Incredibows in our online music shop. Everything is sent
> immediately on payment, there's free postage to the UK and EU, and
> a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for your complete piece of mind.
> Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk and you'll find out why our
> customers love us!
>
> Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-
> piece celtic band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following
> in the UK, Ireland, Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3
> downloads. Meet us all at http://www.celtmusic.co.uk
>
> Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire,
> then you owe it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You
> and your children will get to play real musical instruments and lay
> the foundation for a lifetime of music. Seriously Fun Music
> Sessions - more at http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
>
> NEW!
>
> What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations?
> About leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity?
> For organisational consulting and group work with a sound
> difference, see http://www.yourmusic.biz - building on 24 years of
> successful organisational learning!
>
> COMING SOON
>
> Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded
> and fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and
> develop. Fabulous frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available
> August 2006 at http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 19:22:56 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:18:39 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <4ac.58f004a.32513f38@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14571B0.3466%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Oh dear, I?ll never recreate it. Anyway, its musings have led me to play
with extracting meaning from the images Kris posted this morning.
Interesting results! I don?t know how, but that little exercise seems to
have intersected with the explorations and theories I?m forming about making
musical shapes, and led to the insight that I was trying to make musical
shapes with no thought as to how they relate to the rest of the musical
elements I was dealing with. Once I changed my way of thinking, it all
began to flow.
Yes ? now I remember. A lot of what I said had to do with making it safe
for people to share their personal associations to images. It reveals you
to your depths. No puts downs should be allowed. If people aren?t aware
that they?re engaging in put-downs, some way of bringing it to their
attention needs to be available.
Also, for your multi-cultural workshop, consider gesture and mime. Dalcroze
works with both of those. He was a student of Delsarte?s son in Paris, and
Michio Ito came out of the Hellerau environment. Gesture and movement
express or make visual all the musical elements and their relationships.
It?s called Plastique Animee. For instance, how can you move through space
and show Period-Phrase structure with its different types of cadences, while
showing tempo, meter, dynamics, and articulation at the same time? The
whole things works on a time-space-energy in a gravity field continuum.
Then there?s the design of lines. All through gesture and movement. The
ideal Dalcroze class doesn?t talk until after the experience has happened.
The music and the movement speak for themselves. Why? So words don?t
direct the content of the meaning you make from the experience. A shared
dialog afterwards can serve to name what you?ve experienced and to add
information of many kinds to what you alone have perceived and processed in
that single experience. Dalcroze has to be experienced to be understood.
Words can never suffice. If you do use any of this, I?d really love to know
how it turns out. Actually, whether or not you use it, I?d love to hear
about the results of your workshop.
A couple of people have asked that we post the Dalcroze discussions for
everyone, so I?ll do so ? if it?s ok with you ? until someone objects.
Back to making an Allemande out of Twinkle Little Star!
Best, k
On 10/1/06 11:56 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Kathy,
>
> Thought I'd home in on this one first out of all the ones I've seen from the
> group since late last night... I didn't get anything with that as the subject,
> and if it did arrive it didn't go into my spam folder either...
>> Mark ? did you get my ?Potpourri? posting? I can?t seem to find it
>> anywhere! k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 19:54:36 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:50:17 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <C14571B0.3466%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <C14571B0.3466%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4F4751AC-658F-429D-B258-19F4D5E23BED@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
On 1 Oct 2006, at 18:22, Kathryn Arizmendi wrote:
> He was a student of Delsarte?s son in Paris, and Michio Ito came
> out of the Hellerau environment. Gesture and movement express or
> make visual all the musical elements and their relationships. It?s
> called Plastique Animee. For instance, how can you move through
> space and show Period-Phrase structure with its different types of
> cadences, while showing tempo, meter, dynamics, and articulation at
> the same time? The whole things works on a time-space-energy in a
> gravity field continuum. Then there?s the design of lines. All
> through gesture and movement. The ideal Dalcroze class doesn?t
> talk until after the experience has happened. The music and the
> movement speak for themselves. Why? So words don?t direct the
> content of the meaning you make from the experience. A shared
> dialog afterwards can serve to name what you?ve experienced and to
> add information of many kinds to what you alone have perceived and
> processed in that single experience.
Kathy, can you give me an inkling of what the underlying purpose of
these Dalcroze classes is? None of the names you mention mean
anything to me so I am at a total loss. Are the classes meant to aid
musicians or composers or poets? What you describe sounds like
something more, a bit like some kind of a Western Sufi approach to
"higher consciousness". Or something similar. I would love to be
filled in on the background.
Thanks
don
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 1 19:58:08 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:53:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
Message-ID: <c70.14b6b8d.32515bb0@aol.com>
Interesting how books diverge - you had me worried and I looked it up on the
web and most sources so mention a root of "Glitzen", to slip. Even so it's
interesting how meanings change through time and across cultures. Sometimes
when I find the foreign equivalent for a familiar word, I get an insight into
the word I normally use. For example, the word "rainbow" never really struck
me as special until I realised the French term for it means "curve in the
sky". Somehow that makes me notice the word more now, and whenever I see one a
rainbow, I have a slightly richer set of words to draw on.
ORIGIN 1960s(originally U.S.): of unknown origin. The original sense was [a
sudden surge of current,] hence [malfunction, hitch] in astronautical slang.
But you may be right. I mean what do they know?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 17:26, _MarkHarmer@aol.com_ (mailto:MarkHarmer@aol.com)
wrote:
By the way referring to an earlier answer that I can't now find, I'd always
understood the root of the word "Glitch" comes from a jewish word meaning "to
slip":
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 20:01:24 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:57:05 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] what kind of OS
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F9880E18CDE49B2CE11DCDA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F175BCB87F95179949F36D0A81E0@phx.gbl>
Kathryn: "What kind of operation do YOU see here?"
http://tinyurl.com/lcc3v
Youmaystickerlabeldrawermekris
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>Morning Kris -
>>
>>I think it's more important to hear your ideas on how change in people's
>>thinking occurs, than for me to expound on the topic. I'd love to listen
>>and
>>respond to your insights. What kind of operation do YOU see here?
>
>
>Good Afternoon Mammaliandcuriousk ~
>
>That is a very good question
>
>(And I wished more subscriber of this Chatgroup
>
>Would ask -themselves- that)
>
>Because the answers are pretty&ugly
>
>(And I will start offering some in
>
>Posts to come - little miniseries)
>
>Let's just start with this one:
>
>
>http://www.statistenverein.ch/image/gallery/seniorenausflug/Seniorenausflug%202.jpg
>
>http://www.luterbach.ch/01gemeinde/pics/Seniorenausflug.JPG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Love & Kaffeekranzchen, Krrrri-sss
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>>Also - what would you truly like to be called? I don't think you should
>>wear a mask unless you want to. And if you do want to, what kind do you
>>want?
>>Further - I'm very interested to know what kind of creative pursuits you
>>prefer for your own self expression. Lest my meaning is nebulous, I mean
>>like mine is music and the art of teaching.
>>
>>Love, and I can't Fillintheblanksfor you. k
>>
>>
>>On 9/29/06 1:51 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Kathryn ~
>> >
>> > "operation"?
>> >
>> > hm
>> >
>> > what un'kind of operation (do you see) is (not) going on here?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Love & Fillintheblanks, Kirsten
>> > --------------------------
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> >
>> >
>> >> Another option - don't get hooked into responding in kind. Read
>>through
>> >> the
>> >> facade to the content beneath. The facade doesn't help create a safe
>>space
>> >> for many, but I have known many like him. They were insightful,
>>creative,
>> >> and talented, among other things - as I presently perceive him.
>>Perhaps he
>> >> sees his role (temporarily?) as a kind of gadfly. Pushing all of us
>>along
>> >> to think out of the Bohm box. And I am sure that as valuable as Bohm
>>is,
>> >> other thinkers have built on his ideas and added valuable
>>contributions of
>> >> their own. And, I believe KP gets input from us that propels his own
>> >> understanding to new spaces. Which again is Bohm, as I understand
>>him.
>> >>
>> >> He was one of the first to welcome me. That is a comment about his
>> >> underlying attitude towards people, I believe.
>> >>
>> >> My sons freaked me out when I first heard them call each other "dog"!
>>But
>> >> they are inseparable, and take care of each other.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe he will realize that operating without anesthesia doesn't work
>>for
>> >> most of us, (we find other doctors who use anesthesia!) and find a
>>better
>> >> way.
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, that is my opinion. k
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
>> >>> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list. (For the
>> >>> benefit of newcomers, this would be the third time that this person
>> >>> has joined the list under different names and written in
>> >>> pretty much the same way thus leading to this sort of discussion.)
>> >>>
>> >>> Here are just a couple of thoughts that occur to me while I am
>> >>> writing this:
>> >>>
>> >>> He/she seems to want to get kicked off in order to prove some point,
>> >>> He/she puts a lot of energy into attacking both the activity of
>> >>> dialogue and some of those who are engaged in doing it, without
>> >>> suggesting any alternative other than parrotting those
>> >>> who would likely have considered it a waste of time.
>> >>>
>> >>> Further thoughts: would unsubscribing him/her be anti-dialogical? Is
>> >>> suggesting that people simply delete offensive posts
>> >>> any better? Does his/her continued presence add to or enrich our
>> >>> explorations? Or, what if we told her/him, "You are
>> >>> right. It is a waste of time, We are all going to quit,"?
>> >>>
>> >>> Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions on this topic?
>> >>>
>> >>> don
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> info:
>> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>>
>> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>>
>> >>> dialogue facilitator:
>> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>>
>> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> info:
>> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >> dialogue facilitator:
>> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >> admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>>Live
>> > Spaces
>> >
>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
>> > et.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>Live Spaces
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 1 20:02:18 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:57:59 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
Message-ID: <518.65ba5250.32515caa@aol.com>
Hi Kathy,
The gesture and mime idea reminds me of something I've heard of called "body
sculpture", where people create a static picture about (say) a set of
relationships at work. But I'm very interested in the dynamic rather than the
static.
I'll have a proper read. We're having thunderstorms here today and my
electricity keeps going on and off. I must say it's great when it's off - somehow
without the distraction of technology we end up doing much more interactive
stuff in the household! But then again, I don't get to see all the emails...
Mark
Oh dear, I?ll never recreate it. Anyway, its musings have led me to play
with extracting meaning from the images Kris posted this morning. Interesting
results! I don?t know how, but that little exercise seems to have
intersected with the explorations and theories I?m forming about making musical
shapes, and led to the insight that I was trying to make musical shapes with no
thought as to how they relate to the rest of the musical elements I was dealing
with. Once I changed my way of thinking, it all began to flow.
Yes ? now I remember. A lot of what I said had to do with making it safe
for people to share their personal associations to images. It reveals you to
your depths. No puts downs should be allowed. If people aren?t aware that
they?re engaging in put-downs, some way of bringing it to their attention needs
to be available.
Also, for your multi-cultural workshop, consider gesture and mime. Dalcroze
works with both of those. He was a student of Delsarte?s son in Paris, and
Michio Ito came out of the Hellerau environment. Gesture and movement
express or make visual all the musical elements and their relationships. It?s
called Plastique Animee. For instance, how can you move through space and show
Period-Phrase structure with its different types of cadences, while showing
tempo, meter, dynamics, and articulation at the same time? The whole things
works on a time-space-energy in a gravity field continuum. Then there?s the
design of lines. All through gesture and movement. The ideal Dalcroze class
doesn?t talk until after the experience has happened. The music and the
movement speak for themselves. Why? So words don?t direct the content of the
meaning you make from the experience. A shared dialog afterwards can serve to
name what you?ve experienced and to add information of many kinds to what you
alone have perceived and processed in that single experience. Dalcroze has
to be experienced to be understood. Words can never suffice. If you do use
any of this, I?d really love to know how it turns out. Actually, whether or
not you use it, I?d love to hear about the results of your workshop.
A couple of people have asked that we post the Dalcroze discussions for
everyone, so I?ll do so ? if it?s ok with you ? until someone objects.
Back to making an Allemande out of Twinkle Little Star!
Best, k
**********************
Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
Incredibows in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
there's free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for your
complete piece of mind. Visit _http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk_
(http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/) and you'll find out why our customers love us!
Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
celtic band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK, Ireland,
Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at
_http://www.celtmusic.co.uk_ (http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/)
Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you owe
it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children will
get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a lifetime of
music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at _http://www.musicgarden.co.uk_
(http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/)
NEW!
What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For organisational
consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
_http://www.yourmusic.biz_ (http://www.yourmusic.biz/) - building on 24 years of successful
organisational learning!
COMING SOON
Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop. Fabulous frogs,
delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
_http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk_ (http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/)
-------------- next part --------------
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 20:02:23 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 20:58:05 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <4F4751AC-658F-429D-B258-19F4D5E23BED@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
References: <C14571B0.3466%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
<4F4751AC-658F-429D-B258-19F4D5E23BED@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B5D60B2B-0144-4133-9008-C7F132A8BE32@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Further, does it have anything to do with Rudolf Steiner's
Eurythmics. We did some work with that years ago in a workshop I was
in years ago somewhere, maybe at Esalen.
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 18:54, Don Factor wrote:
>
> On 1 Oct 2006, at 18:22, Kathryn Arizmendi wrote:
>
>> He was a student of Delsarte?s son in Paris, and Michio Ito came
>> out of the Hellerau environment. Gesture and movement express or
>> make visual all the musical elements and their relationships.
>> It?s called Plastique Animee. For instance, how can you move
>> through space and show Period-Phrase structure with its different
>> types of cadences, while showing tempo, meter, dynamics, and
>> articulation at the same time? The whole things works on a time-
>> space-energy in a gravity field continuum. Then there?s the
>> design of lines. All through gesture and movement. The ideal
>> Dalcroze class doesn?t talk until after the experience has
>> happened. The music and the movement speak for themselves. Why?
>> So words don?t direct the content of the meaning you make from the
>> experience. A shared dialog afterwards can serve to name what
>> you?ve experienced and to add information of many kinds to what
>> you alone have perceived and processed in that single experience.
>
> Kathy, can you give me an inkling of what the underlying purpose of
> these Dalcroze classes is? None of the names you mention mean
> anything to me so I am at a total loss. Are the classes meant to
> aid musicians or composers or poets? What you describe sounds like
> something more, a bit like some kind of a Western Sufi approach to
> "higher consciousness". Or something similar. I would love to be
> filled in on the background.
> Thanks
> don
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 20:06:44 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 21:02:29 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <4F4751AC-658F-429D-B258-19F4D5E23BED@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F12EF77C2D847D71CB8DFF7A81E0@phx.gbl>
I would love to be
>filled in
http://www.seomoz.org/images/post_images/sandbox-kid.jpg
on the background.
>Thanks
>donf
Krisbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
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