From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 01:22:31 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 02:18:07 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <515.70e27050.324fd72f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C1447477.340B%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
A potpourri of thoughts -
Further reflection tells me that it?s not images per se that bother me.
It?s the difference between no detail, no context in the drawing and
something from which to make inferences. Clues, context for meaning. Bohm
has some interesting things to say on visual thinking/images, folding, and
the teacher I mentioned followed up with the classic Arnheim ?Visual
Thinking?, and Langler, among other things.
And ? drawing is used with traumatized children to try to uncover what
traumatized them. Puppets, too.
I can remember once when I was very small, I made a drawing and told a
friend that it was to be read with the opposite meaning of the figures. The
friend gave me a blank look, and I never tried it again. So people can
assign their own contradictory meanings to commonly held symbols. How would
we know that, without words?
Maybe the space has to be safe enough for all members of a group to add
detail and meaning to anything they do. Ambiguity can be a shield. Put
downs, a form of verbal abuse, make people withdraw, hide, or purposely
irritate those who put them down.
It would be interesting to see how many in a group came up with similar
interpretations of the same drawing.
As for dreams and imaging, I think that dreams are our natural way of
creating symbols ? images.
How?d the gig go?
Also, since some people enjoyed the posting that I couldn?t send to your
personal email, do you think we should continue those posts on the board
until somebody objects? k
On 9/30/06 10:20 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Absolutely! I think Assagioli did some work on "subpersonalities" - so I'd
> love to try an experiment with a dialogue between the "critial Mark", the
> "parental Mark", the magical Mark" etc - and it's also quite a helpful concept
> to allow me to think about how I might react to something from these various
> elements of me...I think Bohm in "On Dialogue" talks about it being possible
> to have a dialogue with oneself, and this is the closest I can get to
> understanding how that might be possible.
>> Hey Mark ? I never thought of dialoging with different elements of my
>> personality, but why not?! k
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 01:26:17 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 02:21:48 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C143E6DF.74A2%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Speech has its own music. One can derive a song melody from the tonal
shapes and rhythmic flow of speech. Don't understand the difference between
a musician and a singer, tho. k
On 9/30/06 11:18 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want me
>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps you
>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>> address.
>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>> might be
>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>> www.fier.com
>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>> international
>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>> in
>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>> place.
>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>> remember
>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>> much
>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>> and
>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>> your
>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>> down? to
>>>> children.
>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>> complete
>>>> original
>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>> You
>>>> most likely
>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>> and
>>>> essential to its
>>>> understanding. It is
>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>> microcosm,
>>>> and back again,
>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>
>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>> of
>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>> because I
>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>> patterns,
>>>> structure,
>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>> base on
>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>> challenging,
>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>> infinite.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>> board
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Best, k
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
> 208 376-1336
> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>
>
> "Love is never earned . . .
> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 02:58:42 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 03:54:39 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
In-Reply-To: <20061001100003.AC219235A0@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF107BE136.8861B3AF-ON852571FA.0002AEBE-852571FA.00055FF0@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Don, Im glad you included the poem.
Being as inclusive as possible is one thing -- but this is a Bohm_dialogue
-- and boundary might well be drawn at a point where personal insults are
regularly forwarded from list members.
It seems that Kirsten/Peter had no intention of dialoguing with this list
without exhibiting their pleasure show of personal insult.
Aside from that, K/P displays parent-issues that youngsters adore; a real
rebel. It would be so cool for K/P if they could get themselves kicked off
this list. So fine, lets help K/P be cool._R
.
.
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:51:58 +0100
From: Don Factor <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
.
On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list.
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:46:59 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:42:32 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <00a001c6e4af$5a28f080$4317153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <C1449653.74CA%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
I think more in terms of all the many varieties of key, tempo, rhythm, use
of dissonance and resolution, etc. all evoke different moods and feelings,
just as words can do this.
Lynne
On 9/30/06 10:41 AM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
> love reading about this. -- Lynne
>
> Me too, though I have very little musical talent.
>
> Looking at music as a language thought, and thinking Korzybski that words
> are pointers, some questions occurs:
>
> What does music "point to"?
> What does Jazz point to?
> What does 'church music' point to?
> The drum beat?
>
> Don L
>
>
>
> http://home1.gte.net/donlay
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
>
> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>
> Lynne
>
> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want
>> me
>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps
>> you
>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>
>>
>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>
>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>> address.
>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>> might be
>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>> www.fier.com
>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>> international
>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>> in
>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>> place.
>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>> remember
>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>> much
>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>> and
>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>> your
>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>> down? to
>>>> children.
>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>> complete
>>>> original
>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>> You
>>>> most likely
>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>> and
>>>> essential to its
>>>> understanding. It is
>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>> microcosm,
>>>> and back again,
>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>
>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>> of
>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>> because I
>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>> patterns,
>>>> structure,
>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>> base on
>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>> challenging,
>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>> infinite.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>> board
>>>> somehow.
>>>>
>>>> Best, k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:49:50 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:45:23 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <F612CA1C-C10B-48FF-83F6-EA4F1236B19E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C14496FE.74CB%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Intention helps (as in a notebook and pen by the bed), and some of my
friends swear by vitamin B6 (I?ve never tried that, usually don?t have much
trouble remembering).
Lynne
On 9/30/06 10:42 AM, "Don Factor" <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So how many of you did it take to come up with all this?
>
> I am especially intrigued with the notion of 'social memory'. At first glance
> I tend to think of the cause of this working in the opposite direction, but I
> will have to, I guess, dream on it tonight,
>
> Actually, i have tried using cheese for this purpose a number of times and
> sometimes it even works. I haven't kept track as which cheese works best
> though.
>
> don
>
>
> On 30 Sep 2006, at 16:46, MarkHarmer@aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lynne, spooky you should mention this but I had one tiny element of a dream
>> which I then realised could have been telling me something about how we
>> extrapolate our view of quality, and led to a rich (for me) piece of writing
>> on "quality" and how in commerce we privilege the quantifiable and measurable
>> and "quick" over the qualitative - the contextual, relational, unmeasurable
>> aspect of how we see the world. Out of this I then had thoughts about the way
>> we process data as opposed to the way machines process data - and out of
>> this, some thoughts on how easily we as non-machines arrive at assumptions
>> based on the first data that we become aware of - and finally, how our "data"
>> gets into the group in the form of stories and discussion and becomes a
>> "social memory" which can (if we allow it to) influence our way of seeing the
>> world.
>>
>> ?
>>
>> All that from a brief bit of a dream. That was my first experience of using a
>> dream in this way - I must eat more cheese at nights!
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>> There is almost no end to the ?parts? of the ?personality? one can
>>> dialogue with. ?I?ve been exploring dreams (as in sleeping) for about 18
>>> years in a group. ?The main premise is that every element in a dream
>>> represents some part of yourself. ?One of the ways we explore what these
>>> parts are like is to dialogue with them. ?It can be fascinating, and often
>>> very revealing.
>>>
>>> Lynne
>>
>> ?
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 05:56:45 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 06:52:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <be6.4718966.324fe58d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C144989D.74CD%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
I can share words, don?t know how to share the melody, though. This is one
I performed at a women?s writers retreat several years ago. (I play a
little simple guitar to accompany myself.) (Thanks for asking, Mark!)
If I could break the old taboos,
If I could touch.
If I could choose to speak the words
I?ve not yet thought.
If I could loose the powerful thing within me,
If I could let my power join with yours,
Then would the world come to rest, completely,
Then would my soul be at peace.
Lynne
On 9/30/06 9:21 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> I'm really interested in what you might have written if you're happy to share
> it. I love the idea of music / poetry etc - anything that's a sequence in
> time, as that "does it" for me in a way that still images really don't.
>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>
>> Lynne
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Oct 1 06:05:45 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Oct 2 07:01:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
In-Reply-To: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Maybe that (difference between a singer and a musician) is a remnant of my
old habit of not taking myself seriously. I love music, to listen, to sing,
to play a little guitar. I think music is more basic to the
created/unfolded world than people generally credit. So it's part of my
life as a mystic, too.
On 9/30/06 5:26 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Speech has its own music. One can derive a song melody from the tonal
> shapes and rhythmic flow of speech. Don't understand the difference between
> a musician and a singer, tho. k
>
>
> On 9/30/06 11:18 AM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not really a musician (but a singer), but I love reading about this.
>> I've always been interested in the connection between poetry and music as
>> two forms of the same sort of expression. I used to write songs, exploring
>> this. Haven't in a long time, though.
>>
>> Lynne
>>
>> On 9/30/06 6:39 AM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm glad it didn't get into Mark's private email box, then. Do you want me
>>> to send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze? If so, perhaps you
>>> should send me your email since others may not want to read it. k
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/30/06 2:39 AM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm really happy to read this - thanks for posting. - Franis
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:02:17 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>>>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>>>> My apologies if this should have been sent to Mark?s private email
>>>>> address.
>>>>> I tried, and it was returned, so I had no alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark -
>>>>> I took this off the group board because I thought only you and I
>>>>> might be
>>>>> interested. For work in Eurhythmics, go to the information at
>>>>> www.fier.com
>>>>> International Federation of Eurhythmics Teachers. It?s an
>>>>> international
>>>>> listing of what?s available. For more browsing, Google versions of
>>>>> Dalcroze. I find that if one combines Bohm principles as outlined
>>>>> in
>>>>> On Creativity, with Dalcroze Eurhythmics, one has a good starting
>>>>> place.
>>>>> I?m fortunate
>>>>> to have the memory of the classes with Frances, the teacher, and
>>>>> remember
>>>>> what she emphasized from Bohm. You?ll find that Dalcroze has pretty
>>>>> much
>>>>> been restricted to children these days, but it shouldn?t have been,
>>>>> and
>>>>> didn?t begin that way. But the focus on children will be good for
>>>>> your
>>>>> interests. Then, just adjust it to adults. Dalcroze didn?t ?teach
>>>>> down? to
>>>>> children.
>>>>> He insisted they be treated as young artists. Actually, I have the
>>>>> complete
>>>>> original
>>>>> methodology for adults, and its adaptation by Dalcroze for children.
>>>>> You
>>>>> most likely
>>>>> won?t be introduced to that. Feel
>>>>> free to ask, and I?ll fill you in as best I can. The history of
>>>>> Dalcroze,
>>>>> its connections with theater, dance, art, etc, etc, are unending,
>>>>> and
>>>>> essential to its
>>>>> understanding. It is
>>>>> rooted in the idea that the rhythm of change, from macrocosm to
>>>>> microcosm,
>>>>> and back again,
>>>>> is the source of everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> I introduced principles of Dialog in today?s session of
>>>>> improvisation. Boy,
>>>>> did it work. The interchange between my teacher and me became a kind
>>>>> of
>>>>> dialog in which I tried
>>>>> to show him what was going on in my mind. By exploring processes,
>>>>> structures, patterns, relationships, and all
>>>>> the things ?On Creativity? talks about, one can definitely study
>>>>> improvisation. I delayed responding to this part of your email
>>>>> because I
>>>>> was working very hard to prepare for today. The discovery of
>>>>> patterns,
>>>>> structure,
>>>>> where and how they relate, distilling axioms, and putting a data
>>>>> base on
>>>>> automatic so you can focus
>>>>> on finding new connections and meaning is a slow process. But
>>>>> challenging,
>>>>> therefore very rewarding. My teacher is hanging
>>>>> in there, even though he says the patterns and relationships are
>>>>> infinite.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know how it goes. Maybe we can take the discussion off the
>>>>> board
>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best, k
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
>> 208 376-1336
>> www.lifedirectionscoach.com
>> (visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
>>
>>
>> "Love is never earned . . .
>> It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 09:39:26 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 10:40:38 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
References: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
<C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
About J.K and D.B:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:27:22 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:23:11 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
In-Reply-To: <OF107BE136.8861B3AF-ON852571FA.0002AEBE-852571FA.00055FF0@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F1522EE60C84C63534CF02AA81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Subscriber "_R",
can you please share with us some of those "insults"
i is listening .... lets 'see'
Kirsten
>Being as inclusive as possible is one thing -- but this is a Bohm_dialogue
>-- and boundary might well be drawn at a point where personal insults are
>regularly forwarded from list members.
>It seems that Kirsten/Peter had no intention of dialoguing with this list
>without exhibiting their pleasure show of personal insult.
>
>Aside from that, K/P displays parent-issues that youngsters adore; a real
>rebel. It would be so cool for K/P if they could get themselves kicked off
>this list. So fine, lets help K/P be cool._R
>.
>.
>Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:51:58 +0100
>From: Don Factor <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: death?
>.
>On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
>
> > I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> > about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:32:26 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:28:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Cheese Factor
In-Reply-To: <F612CA1C-C10B-48FF-83F6-EA4F1236B19E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4F42EF57C71939CC8D379A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donf
'rent you putting on
a bit too munch
weight?
Love & Metabolism, Kibot
>Actually, i have tried using cheese for this purpose a number of times and
>sometimes it even works. I haven't kept track as which cheese works best
>though.
>
>don
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From vroneill at gmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:35:26 2006
From: vroneill at gmail.com (Veronica O'Neill)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:31:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
References: <BAY107-F227184000B825201595F38A8190@phx.gbl>
<C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <aa4c04700610010235q2b55b1d6yf5627971cb103c4d@mail.gmail.com>
Hello Katheryn,
How clear a definition do you think can actually be applied to any
particular word?
I'm interested in this from the point of view of translating poetry
where I believe the real challenge is to not fall into the trap of
applying a clear definition to any of the words. The original poem
offers endless interpretations; the task of the translator is to
present the poem in the new language with the same set of possible
interpretations. If clear definition is applied to the words, these
definitions are the translator's own interpretation, and the poem
changes.
Best wishes,
Veronica
How, without adding language
> that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as communicating
> your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
> why?
>
> P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>
> All the
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:35:55 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:31:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males, white
men ..... how come?
Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>About J.K and D.B:
>
>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Search—say hello!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:44:12 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:39:52 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <08B55550-9AEB-4E89-A705-4CEBBBE890A2@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F31A83C518806F4A577621A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donfneediremindyouexpresser,
>If you really want to be serious, the "line of thought" is pure TAS and
>need I remind you that ___________
Is there such a thinkgs as NOT" pure" (contaminated?) tas?
Or is the old man just (again) (a bit) full of it
Meaning those i'm-pure thinkgiiies
Love & Detergents, Kgbot
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Search—say hello!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:50:10 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:45:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] 78685r7f&6r757576%&%75
In-Reply-To: <C143F392.33DA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F29484EBF5AD08A732CF5DCA81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Youcancallmeasyouwish ~
All those "too many"
That you 'dont like'
Are there, working away
Below your hood anyhow
So you/we might as well
'Keep' them in mind.
That said, let me ask
Can you give us a
SINGLE word that is
Less 'open' than any
Image.
Let's do that
And let's SEE what happens
BTW: Any word IS an image (imagery)
Love & %&^$^bh66, Kirsten
>Kris - thinking in this kind of image doesn't work for me because it's open
>to too many different interpretations. The image elicits too many diverse
>personal responses, based largely on memories. How, without adding
>language
>that contains words with clear definitions, do you see this as
>communicating
>your thought accurately? Or was it your purpose to be nebulous? If so,
>why?
>
>P.S. Until you give me a different choice of name, I will use Kris.
>
>All the best, k
>
>
>On 9/30/06 6:05 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > ok: http://www.tomveatch.com/else/tv/SergeyGutkinFH.jpg
> >
> >> ok:
> >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Abalone_board.jpg
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Is there anyone who wants to discuss ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ok:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ4WA.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kbot
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> >>>
> >>
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.
> >>
>microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=
> >> hmtagline
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Try the new Live Search today!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
>G
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:52:07 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:47:42 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Kirsten/Peter
In-Reply-To: <009f01c6e498$0306ff70$016d153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F5F40AB07ED32CA638A9C5A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donl
>"i" is ('simply') a function, an operation of the system (TAS , Thought As
>a System), rather than the other way around. -- ???
>
>So what! What? -- dbl
Precisely
Love & Whoneedsdialog, Kirsten
>
>
>>Dear Mark ~
>>
>>"i" is ('simply') a function, an operation of the system (TAS , Thought As
>>a System), rather than the other way around.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>PS: good to see that somebody is actually asking questions around here
>>when somethinkg is ... fishiii
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Love & Scubadiving, Kbot
>>
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>>>Hi Ki,
>>>
>>>I have **no idea** what you mean!!
>>>
>>>
>>>Dear Mark
>>>
>>>"It" thinkgs
>>>
>>>"Me"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Ki
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>dialogue facilitator:
>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Get today's hot entertainment gossip
>>http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 11:54:31 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 12:50:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <1367.AQQDWldUWH8=.1159635630.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
What happened to you
R images
Ki
_________________________________________________________________
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 12:15:03 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:10:40 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
References: <C1447559.340C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
<C1449AB9.74CF%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
<1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <A71AB33D-1256-4301-8E48-07056C2B7525@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
I've seen this piece before. Martin Gardner earned his living for
years as the resident skeptic at Scientific American and later at the
Skeptical Inquirer. I am not a fan.
I don''t know if he is still alive and writing, but there are others
too who make it their business to descredit anyone who steps outside
the bounds of what gets called by some, "normal science" and more
recently, "scientism". To show what lengths they go to to protect
their sacred paradigms Richard Dawkins earns his living as the Oxford
Professor of the explanation of science to the public. J Robert
Oppenheimer who was Bohm's mentor for doctoral thesis, said, later,
"If we cannot refute Bohm, we must agree to ignore him." And this was
still in his pre-Krishnamurti days.
Here is a quote from the Gardner piece which demonstrates his
purposeful misinterpretation of Bohm's work
"Bohm also flirted with panpsychism, the belief that all matter is in
some sense alive with low levels of consciousness. "Even the electron
is informed with a certain level of mind," Bohm said in an interview
published in Quantum Implications: Essays in Honor of David Bohm
(1987), edited by Basil Hiley and David Peat. Bohm's later writings
swarm with neologisms such as holomovement, rheomode, levate,
enfoldment, soma-significant, and implicate and explicate levels of
reality."
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 08:39, edgelink@no-log.org wrote:
> About J.K and D.B:
>
> http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 12:27:49 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:28:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1367.AQQDWldUWH8=.1159635630.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F208825631DE5360871C69BA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
:-)
>
>
>
>>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>
>
>
> Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>
> What happened to you
>
> R images
>
>
>
> Ki
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 12:30:10 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 13:31:11 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1185.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159688366.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F19424FEC95D0D38FAD81B9A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
Aur?lien
>
> Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males, white
> men ..... how come?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>
>
>>About J.K and D.B:
>>
>>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Search?say hello!
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 13:10:33 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:06:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F99B09AE0331240F4192DFA8190@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F99B09AE0331240F4192DFA8190@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A0A5727B-D40A-410D-8B35-DF443FEB7690@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
that we are avoiding the subject.
>
> Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
don
From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Oct 1 13:50:57 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:50:42 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
Message-ID: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here? Mostly, the
person would just disappear, unless someone bothered to notify us here.
- Franis
On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:10:33 +0100 Don Factor
<donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> writes:
> This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
> that we are avoiding the subject.
>
> >
> > Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>
> He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>
> don
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 14:00:14 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:55:57 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Dalcoze
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF5A0B282F.D7572044-ON852571FA.004123F4-852571FA.0041F083@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Kathryn, yes I think it would be great if you would send some
of the Dalcoze which you find especially relevant to dialogue. _R
.
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Especially for Mark
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Do you want meto send you copies of any future exchanges on Dalcroze?
Best, k
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 14:04:18 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 14:59:54 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
References: <20061001.045102.344.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
Message-ID: <3E963FFC-85C2-45FB-B879-BDD0EBC6F3C6@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Interesting question. A number of times the server has automatically
deleted subscribers after
repeated bounces because of full mailboxes or closed accounts. Who
knows what actually
happened to these folks?
Do you thing that we should we all leave instructions with our next
of kin or executors to inform the list?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 12:50, Franis Engel wrote:
> How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here?
> Mostly, the
> person would just disappear, unless someone bothered to notify us
> here.
> - Franis
>
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 12:10:33 +0100 Don Factor
> <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> This is the last post notdealing with death. I think you are right
>> that we are avoiding the subject.
>>
>>>
>>> Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>>
>> He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>>
>> don
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 1 14:24:01 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:19:41 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20061002100004.643FD2369E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFF4765EB3.9CE213BE-ON852571FA.00431EF7-852571FA.00441DF2@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Don L, I have been fortunate enough to spend considerable time
with Bohm, but have spent NO time conversing with Parmenides and
Heraclitus. Nor unfortunately read any books of their thinking -- which
raises a question; how could I have a clue of what Bohm was talking about,
if I hadn't met or read Parmenides and Heraclitus?
On the other hand, I am eager to pursue the line-of-thought that you refer
to, running from Parmenides and Heraclitus to Bohm. But some serious
reading and then some thought of my own -solo improv- is taking place._R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Why not go back a lot further, as does Bohm, to Parmenides, Heraclitus?
-- Don L
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:27:33 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:23:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] what kind of OS
In-Reply-To: <C143E0AC.33BC%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F9880E18CDE49B2CE11DCDA81E0@phx.gbl>
>Morning Kris -
>
>I think it's more important to hear your ideas on how change in people's
>thinking occurs, than for me to expound on the topic. I'd love to listen
>and
>respond to your insights. What kind of operation do YOU see here?
Good Afternoon Mammaliandcuriousk ~
That is a very good question
(And I wished more subscriber of this Chatgroup
Would ask -themselves- that)
Because the answers are pretty&ugly
(And I will start offering some in
Posts to come - little miniseries)
Let's just start with this one:
http://www.statistenverein.ch/image/gallery/seniorenausflug/Seniorenausflug%202.jpg
http://www.luterbach.ch/01gemeinde/pics/Seniorenausflug.JPG
Love & Kaffeekranzchen, Krrrri-sss
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Also - what would you truly like to be called? I don't think you should
>wear a mask unless you want to. And if you do want to, what kind do you
>want?
>Further - I'm very interested to know what kind of creative pursuits you
>prefer for your own self expression. Lest my meaning is nebulous, I mean
>like mine is music and the art of teaching.
>
>Love, and I can't Fillintheblanksfor you. k
>
>
>On 9/29/06 1:51 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Kathryn ~
> >
> > "operation"?
> >
> > hm
> >
> > what un'kind of operation (do you see) is (not) going on here?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Fillintheblanks, Kirsten
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >> Another option - don't get hooked into responding in kind. Read
>through
> >> the
> >> facade to the content beneath. The facade doesn't help create a safe
>space
> >> for many, but I have known many like him. They were insightful,
>creative,
> >> and talented, among other things - as I presently perceive him.
>Perhaps he
> >> sees his role (temporarily?) as a kind of gadfly. Pushing all of us
>along
> >> to think out of the Bohm box. And I am sure that as valuable as Bohm
>is,
> >> other thinkers have built on his ideas and added valuable contributions
>of
> >> their own. And, I believe KP gets input from us that propels his own
> >> understanding to new spaces. Which again is Bohm, as I understand him.
> >>
> >> He was one of the first to welcome me. That is a comment about his
> >> underlying attitude towards people, I believe.
> >>
> >> My sons freaked me out when I first heard them call each other "dog"!
>But
> >> they are inseparable, and take care of each other.
> >>
> >> Maybe he will realize that operating without anesthesia doesn't work
>for
> >> most of us, (we find other doctors who use anesthesia!) and find a
>better
> >> way.
> >>
> >> Anyway, that is my opinion. k
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/29/06 11:25 AM, "facilitator" <facilitator@david-bohm.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I think the time has come once again to ask others here how they feel
> >>> about Kirsten/Peter's presence on this list. (For the
> >>> benefit of newcomers, this would be the third time that this person
> >>> has joined the list under different names and written in
> >>> pretty much the same way thus leading to this sort of discussion.)
> >>>
> >>> Here are just a couple of thoughts that occur to me while I am
> >>> writing this:
> >>>
> >>> He/she seems to want to get kicked off in order to prove some point,
> >>> He/she puts a lot of energy into attacking both the activity of
> >>> dialogue and some of those who are engaged in doing it, without
> >>> suggesting any alternative other than parrotting those
> >>> who would likely have considered it a waste of time.
> >>>
> >>> Further thoughts: would unsubscribing him/her be anti-dialogical? Is
> >>> suggesting that people simply delete offensive posts
> >>> any better? Does his/her continued presence add to or enrich our
> >>> explorations? Or, what if we told her/him, "You are
> >>> right. It is a waste of time, We are all going to quit,"?
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions on this topic?
> >>>
> >>> don
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> > et.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:32:13 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:27:51 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>
>Aurélien
>
> >
> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>white
> > men ..... how come?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
> >
> >
> >>About J.K and D.B:
> >>
> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:34:50 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:30:31 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
>:-)
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
KiKaKu
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
> >>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
> >
> > What happened to you
> >
> > R images
> >
> >
> >
> > Ki
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:37:20 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:32:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Death-wish, death-instinct
In-Reply-To: <3E963FFC-85C2-45FB-B879-BDD0EBC6F3C6@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F20973D21B679FE3F4C2C6DA81E0@phx.gbl>
>>How would any of us know if one of us Bohm members died here?
Who cares ....
And why ;-?
One Bone&head
As good&bad
As a(ny) 'other'.
Love & Bulk, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 14:33:40 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:34:55 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1118.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698610.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2130.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706020.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
K is not white !
> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
>
>
>
> Kirsten
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>
>>Aur?lien
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>>white
>> > men ..... how come?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >
>> >
>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >>
>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> >
>>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 14:40:25 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:36:05 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F68B7C7D382E2FB4001612A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D0A349B4-9A99-415A-9DF1-FAB4132CFF74@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
does K count as white? In some circles B wouldn't have been either.
Here in the UK he would count as Asian even though he was raised by
upper class
English women and tutored by a white mail pederast. Bohm was a Jew and
as I understand it, white supremacists don't count them as white.
Oh my, all these distinctions...
So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc
> etc)
>
>
>
> Kirsten
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>
>> Aur?lien
>>
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>> males, white
>> > men ..... how come?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >
>> >
>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >>
>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>> us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> Live Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/
> direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From edgelink at no-log.org Sun Oct 1 14:35:49 2006
From: edgelink at no-log.org (edgelink@no-log.org)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:36:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <1101.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159698469.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
<BAY107-F369319D2A5FDE04660E33AA81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2173.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706149.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>
>
>
>>:-)
>
> http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> KiKaKu
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>> >>
>> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>> >
>> > What happened to you
>> >
>> > R images
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ki
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>> Live
>> > Spaces
>> >
>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:43:39 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:39:19 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Dwight
In-Reply-To: <A0A5727B-D40A-410D-8B35-DF443FEB7690@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F332F6DEB216666F115A942A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Donf, wellaugh, I guess that 's as good/bad a story as (2nd-time): "any
other"
Keep up&down a good&bad thought, any how, sir, senior
Love & Diaperschanger, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>Why did Dwight leave Dialog?
>He opted to follow peter to the TT freeforall.
>don
)(
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:48:53 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:44:34 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] white, male, dead,,,,
In-Reply-To: <2130.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706020.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter) than that,
than K (and B)
"Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr Weller van
Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of the Theosophical
Society in the United States. Hubert was also chosen by Leadbeater and after
she left her husband, his mother brought him to India for special training.
After Krishna was found, Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
Separation from father
Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger brother Nitya
were educated at the Theosophical compound and later taken to England to
finish their education. His father, pushed into the background by the swirl
of interest around Krishna, ended up in a lawsuit against the Society to try
to protect his parental interests. As a result of this separation from his
family and home, Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya became extremely close
and in the following years they often travelled together. [...]
also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: edgelink@no-log.org
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>
>K is not white !
>
> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
> >
> >
> >
> > Kirsten
> >
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
> >>
> >>Aur?lien
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
> >>white
> >> > men ..... how come?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
> >> >>
> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
> >> >
> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > info:
> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >> >
> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > dialogue facilitator:
> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:50:02 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:45:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <2173.AQQDWg1VWCg=.1159706149.squirrel@webmail.no-log.org>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
http://cafe-mode.hautetfort.com/album/breakfast_at_tiffany_s/cover-dscn4576.jpg
>http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >>:-)
> >
> > http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > KiKaKu
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
> >> >>
> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
> >> >
> >> > What happened to you
> >> >
> >> > R images
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Ki
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________________________________
> >> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> >> Live
> >> > Spaces
> >> >
> >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > info:
> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >> >
> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > dialogue facilitator:
> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 14:56:37 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:52:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <D0A349B4-9A99-415A-9DF1-FAB4132CFF74@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
Deardonf,
Matteroffactlyspeaking:
Quite a few living whitemales are pretty&dead
Too
All
Ready
..... if he k'nows what she is 'saying'
Love & Reality & Checks, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
>
>don
>
>On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>>Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc etc)
>>
>>
>>
>>Kirsten
>>
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>>
>>>Aurélien
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead, males,
>>>white
>>> > men ..... how come?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>> >>
>>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/ai_63693002
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>>>us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > info:
>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >
>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>dialogue facilitator:
>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
>>Spaces http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/
>>direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:01:49 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:57:29 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] white, male, dead,,,,
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F4C410F772414F8545A100A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3069D19E-C407-480E-8A8A-CE37FC951BA3@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Tanning has two Ns/
don
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:48, kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter)
> than that, than K (and B)
>
> "Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
>
> This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
> conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr
> Weller van Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of
> the Theosophical Society in the United States. Hubert was also
> chosen by Leadbeater and after she left her husband, his mother
> brought him to India for special training. After Krishna was found,
> Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
>
>
> Separation from father
> Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger
> brother Nitya were educated at the Theosophical compound and later
> taken to England to finish their education. His father, pushed into
> the background by the swirl of interest around Krishna, ended up in
> a lawsuit against the Society to try to protect his parental
> interests. As a result of this separation from his family and home,
> Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya became extremely close and in
> the following years they often travelled together. [...]
>
>
> also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
>
>
>
> Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: edgelink@no-log.org
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>> Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>>
>> K is not white !
>>
>> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead,
>> etc etc)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Kirsten
>> >
>> > --------------------------
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your
>> sentence ?
>> >>
>> >>Aur?lien
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>> males,
>> >>white
>> >> > men ..... how come?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>> ai_63693002
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>> >> >
>> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>> us&FORM=WLMTAG
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > info:
>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >> >
>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>info:
>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>> Windows Live
>> > Spaces
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/
> minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:02:31 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:58:09 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] disambiguate
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F79C6579BE38A3CFFE03E0A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1D040D39-A712-4EC2-9BC7-E16E2FBC931E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
MY Gawd is that you K?
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:50, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
> http://cafe-mode.hautetfort.com/album/breakfast_at_tiffany_s/cover-
> dscn4576.jpg
>
>
>> http://static.flickr.com/65/193577034_e40aa6de4d.jpg
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>:-)
>> >
>> > http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/171_11_061299/slonim/pelvis.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > KiKaKu
>> > --------------------------
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>Could you disambiguate the word 'cheese' ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_%28disambiguation%29
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Edgelink, can you do that with images/imagination?
>> >> >
>> >> > What happened to you
>> >> >
>> >> > R images
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Ki
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>> Windows
>> >> Live
>> >> > Spaces
>> >> >
>> >>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > info:
>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >> >
>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>info:
>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft
>> LifeCams
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/
>> default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > info:
>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > dialogue facilitator:
>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>> > admin@david-bohm.net
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Sun Oct 1 15:03:37 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Mon Oct 2 15:59:14 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F145AD739E878C8A3D77925A81E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <7EF57543-72BD-4678-89D6-2F5C7E0D0B4F@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
C'mon pit, get her off the keyboard and stick up for the other side.
On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:56, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
> Deardonf,
>
> Matteroffactlyspeaking:
>
> Quite a few living whitemales are pretty&dead
>
> Too
>
> All
>
> Ready
>
> ..... if he k'nows what she is 'saying'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Reality & Checks, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> So maybe its just dead males that you reject?
>>
>> don
>>
>> On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:32, kirsten schneide wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead,
>>> etc etc)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Kirsten
>>>
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>> I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your
>>>> sentence ?
>>>>
>>>> Aur?lien
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>>>> males, white
>>>> > men ..... how come?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>>>> ai_63693002
>>>> >
>>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>>> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?
>>>> locale=en- us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > info:
>>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>> >
>>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
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>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
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>>> admin@david-bohm.net
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>>>
>>
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>
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> then map the best route! http://local.live.com
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 1 15:42:44 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:38:25 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Taningbusth
In-Reply-To: <3069D19E-C407-480E-8A8A-CE37FC951BA3@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2738CB18114AD7E8CFD2D7A81E0@phx.gbl>
>Tanning has two Ns/
>don
No, Mister, not this one ;-!
Love & Rulesaretheretobebroken*, kbot
* not just rules, that is
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>On 1 Oct 2006, at 13:48, kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>>Dear Aurelien, they dont come whiter (they dont MAKE them whiter) than
>>that, than K (and B)
>>
>>"Whiteness" has no thinkg to do with skin
>>
>>This discovery created a bit of a problem, as there was already a
>>conflicting claim made for Hubert van Hook (b 1896), son of Dr Weller van
>>Hook, a surgeon in Chicago, and the General Secretary of the Theosophical
>>Society in the United States. Hubert was also chosen by Leadbeater and
>>after she left her husband, his mother brought him to India for special
>>training. After Krishna was found, Hubert was soon dropped. [...]
>>
>>
>>Separation from father
>>Krishna, or Krishnaji, as he was often known, and his younger brother
>>Nitya were educated at the Theosophical compound and later taken to
>>England to finish their education. His father, pushed into the background
>>by the swirl of interest around Krishna, ended up in a lawsuit against
>>the Society to try to protect his parental interests. As a result of this
>>separation from his family and home, Krishnamurti and his brother Nitya
>>became extremely close and in the following years they often travelled
>>together. [...]
>>
>>
>>also check out the school(ing)s they pullpushit him through...
>>
>>
>>
>>Love & Taningbooths, Kbot
>>--------------------------
>>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>>>From: edgelink@no-log.org
>>>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] [Article] a skeptical view
>>>Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:33:40 +0200 (CEST)
>>>
>>>K is not white !
>>>
>>> > Dear Aurelien ~ (why) 're you "digging" B&K (male, white, dead, etc
>>>etc)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kirsten
>>> >
>>> > --------------------------
>>> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>> >>I don't understand what you say, can you reformulate your sentence ?
>>> >>
>>> >>Aur?lien
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Dear Edgelink, it appears you are some how in to those dead,
>>>males,
>>> >>white
>>> >> > men ..... how come?
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Love & Freshmeat, Kirsten
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>About J.K and D.B:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_24/
>>>ai_63693002
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> >> > The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>> >> >
>>> >>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-
>>>us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > info:
>>> >> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >> >
>>> >> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> >> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> >> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>info:
>>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >>
>>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
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>>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >>
>>> >>_______________________________________________
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
>>>Live
>>> > Spaces
>>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>>>href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > info:
>>> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>> >
>>> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > dialogue facilitator:
>>> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> > admin@david-bohm.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>info:
>>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
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>>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/
>>minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
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>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
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>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 1 15:50:59 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 2 16:47:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] To Discuss
In-Reply-To: <aa4c04700610010235q2b55b1d6yf5627971cb103c4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1454003.3439%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Good Morning -
There are many challenges facing a translator, particularly of poetry.
First of all, different languages present different perceptions and
interpretations of their experience - often of concepts not in another
language. For instance, translating between English and Navajo is very
difficult because they represent two cultures which do not see much of
anything in common. Yes, there have been translations, but...what they have
conveyed to English speakers is a concession of the conquered to the
conqueror. Remember, it was the language the Code Talkers used.
Second - rhythm, pitch contour and their relation to meaning, while similar
among Romance languages, doesn't work between Native American languages,
Japanese, or Chinese of any dialect, and English. Then, look at
translations from the original languages many operas were written in, to
English. They simply don't work from a singer's pov. That's why the Met
retains the original language, but provides closed caption translations as
the opera progresses.
I believe that Kris and I share enough of the same language to be more
accurate. If not, you make a good point as far as both dialoging with him
in his English, and his use of images. And - if not, he's done a remarkable
job of finding a way to communicate. I don't mind making a better effort to
meet him halfway. However, images have different degrees of complexity.
Compare the painters - realists, surrealists, Cubists, Impressionists, etc.
As for translation as interpretation, maybe one should stick with the amount
of ambiguity the poet put into the poem, if your language accommodates that.
My teaching license was Bilingual Spanish, I have studied French, German,
and Navajo. Among other responsibilities, I have prepared many bilingual
cultural presentations that required the same "whatever" to be presented in
a Spanish and an English version. My late husband was Navajo, and I
volunteered in a Navajo school in the Navajo nation in classes that were
teaching Navajo to Navajo children. Currently, I am tutoring a Chinese
Buddhist nun, fluent in Mandarin and Sanskrit, in writing in English so she
can pass examinati