From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 00:48:50 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 01:45:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F2724FDB8AEDCBB60069BCEA8130@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14C5592.3627%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Dear Kris -
The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is stunning!
In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore answers
my question about what your creative medium is. I wouldn't be surprised if
there were more than one.
May I share with you something I learned from the Navajo? My late husband
was Navajo, and we lived on the ancestral land. His culture was my culture,
and now that I'm back in the city, I'm homesick for the land, the people,
and their world view. When we die, we are participating in the chain of
life. Our flesh then serves the purpose of sustaining life, and that is
part of Hozhoon or living in balance and harmony with all our relations. We
are not worms in the sense English makes of it. The forebears of the Dine
i.e. the People are genetically descended from the Diyin Din'ee
(inadequately translated as "Holy People") through the 4 original clans.
There is no guilt trip inherited with being born flesh into that culture.
The human is mortal, but beautiful. Coyote was the one who convinced the
Holy People to institute death when they were creating the world. His
reason was that if there was no death, there would be no place for the
young, so we have to take turns. So Death is part of Hozhoon.
What do you mean by "the fate of dialog haunting one's dreams"? I see it as
a positive, good force. Why do you see it in such a different light? Is it
so painful? Even though we are imperfect, we are not ugly. Another Navajo
custom. When they do a sand painting or weave a rug, they purposely put in
one imperfection as a symbol.
The image you sent me is as striking and vivid as your writing. It is what
happened to the buffalo, and to my late husband's people. It is what has
happened to many humans. Is it also what Bohm dialog or thinking can do?
But the pain and slaughter is not all of life. Change can be challenging.
I managed to find "Thought As a System" in one book store today. Noplace
anywhere on the West Side did they have the Otto Rank book you recommended.
Not even NYPL has it. I will have to order it.
I would be honored if you will share more of your writing with me. It is
beautiful.
Love and Hozhoon, Beauty - Kathy
On 10/6/06 5:15 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear "k" ____
>
> http://tinyurl.com/l985f
>
> Love & Warmbloodedbleeding
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
>> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:10:22 -0400
>>
>> Hi Rodger ? You?re right. I believe that what you?re speaking of is what I
>> call ?speech music?. I?ve had some very interesting experiences with
>> people
>> who claimed not to speak English, when I used English, but changed the
>> voice
>> music and body language to give context to the exact opposite of what I
>> meant. I also focus on ?speech music? when I interact with horses, cats,
>> and dogs. I once cared for 27 horses who were accustomed to Spanish. The
>> music in my voice (I alternated between Spanish and English, careful to use
>> the same rhythms and intonations) bridged the bilingual gap, and allowed me
>> to care for horses recuperating from surgery and in pain, with no danger
>> whatsoever. And I?ve used it to extract from lyrics, the melodies I have
>> set them to. I have also read that music may have preceded speech. If so,
>> I suspect it was this. When hearing, gesture, and all the other things
>> that
>> go into aural communication are stripped down to reading words, I find it
>> more difficult to get complete meaning, and depend a great deal on the
>> context clues in other words. I also hear the words in my inner hearing
>> when I read. Do you? Do you think this can be misleading? k
>>
>>
>> On 10/6/06 8:15 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rodger __Hi Mark, Hi Kathryn, I really enjoyed this brief on pitch/
>> timbre and
>>> transient.
>>>
>>> I saw a correlation with voice skills, i.e. in the sci-fi DUNE and movie
>> STAR
>>> WARS, both stories told of how a human voice is able to deliberately
>> separate
>>> transient/ implicit meaning from words spoken -- explicit/ dictionary
>> meaning.
>>>
>>> We know how this happens unintentionally, when the sound of someones
>> voice
>>> does not -ring true- to their words. But the art of ringing ones truth
>> in
>>> tune with what one speaks seems to me to be developed in two very
>> different
>>> ways.
>>>
>>> One way I would describe as transparent, i.e. Mahatma Gandhi -- the
>> other way
>>> I would describe as deceptive, i.e someone not very nice.
>>>
>>> To use this skill, words take on secondary importance to the transient
>> sound
>>> in ones voice. A common example is seduction; a person can be talking
>> about
>>> anything, but if the transient meaning is being communicated clearly; a
>>> listener can end up seduced -- or at least, hopefully, end up enjoying
>> the
>>> attempt.
>>>
>>> In more advanced language skills, words and transient/ intonation are
>> aligned
>>> with precision to specify increasingly subtle/ influential meanings. _R
>>> .
>>> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 04:43:47 EDT
>>> From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
>>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>> .
>>> And one thing that really interested me is that there are two bits to a
>> sound,
>>> a
>>> chaotic, completely atonal part called the "transient" and the
>> steady-state
>>> bit which carries the "pitch" and "timbre" (sound quality) of that
>> pitch,
>>> .
>>> .
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search?Your way, your world, right now!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sat Oct 7 00:49:19 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Sun Oct 8 01:46:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
In-Reply-To: <C14B4BC9.35E1%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C14C398F.7676%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Thank you so much for this whole piece!
One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order. This
brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the static,
explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
universe.
Lynne
On 10/5/06 9:54 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I see whatever the vibrations are that our ears pick up and our brain
> interprets as sound to be as close to the Implicate Order as I can get in
> the world of music.
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 01:17:57 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 02:14:45 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
In-Reply-To: <C14C398F.7676%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <C14C5C65.3629%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
You are most welcome. I'm very happy that it has resonated with so many
people. I look forward to developing my ideas, and sharing submitting them
to our group for comment.
Best, k
On 10/6/06 6:49 PM, "Lynne Tolk" <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com> wrote:
> Thank you so much for this whole piece!
>
> One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
> statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order. This
> brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
> experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
> perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
> implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the static,
> explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
> validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
> universe.
>
> Lynne
>
>
> On 10/5/06 9:54 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> I see whatever the vibrations are that our ears pick up and our brain
>> interprets as sound to be as close to the Implicate Order as I can get in
>> the world of music.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 01:27:20 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 02:26:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
Message-ID: <20061006.192854.3964.159.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Dear Kris -
The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is stunning!
In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore
answers
my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
(Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
"dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
*Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
- Gas (in the System)
- Pit
- Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
- Zoe Chu
pat
pat
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 01:36:57 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 02:33:48 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <20061006.192854.3964.159.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C14C60D9.3632%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Thank you for the information, Pat. Best, k
On 10/6/06 7:27 PM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
> Dear Kris -
>
> The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is stunning!
> In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore answers
> my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
>
> Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
> (Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
> The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
> "dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
>
> *Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
>
> - Gas (in the System)
> - Pit
> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
> - Zoe Chu
>
> pat
>
>
>
>
> pat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 01:36:17 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 02:33:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Message-ID: <20061006.193646.3964.163.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Further ... I wonder if that part of that 0.01 second could also be the
time it takes for TAS sub-systems to "make something" up to project as
"in here - out there". The thought occurs of relating this "transient"
to logos as meaning ... intention instead of to the personal identity.
Resonance anyone??? -- dbl
One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order.
This
brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the
static,
explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
universe.
Lynne
Does anyone else see a significant connection between these two posts?
pat
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 01:39:34 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 02:36:22 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <20061006.192854.3964.159.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C14C6176.3633%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Is the the Peter Krauss who is a keyboard instructor in the Hudson Valley ?
a Juilliard graduate? k
On 10/6/06 7:27 PM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
> Dear Kris -
>
> The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is stunning!
> In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore answers
> my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
>
> Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
> (Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
> The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
> "dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
>
> *Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
>
> - Gas (in the System)
> - Pit
> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
> - Zoe Chu
>
> pat
>
>
>
>
> pat
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Sat Oct 7 02:11:16 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Sun Oct 8 03:08:01 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re:Flexing Necessities
In-Reply-To: <20061006.192854.3964.159.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20061007001116.72961.qmail@web55002.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Zoe - Defense? Defensive? Defending? --- What, what? ~ Pat
ae.dropper@juno.com wrote:
Dear Kris -
The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is stunning!
In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore answers
my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
(Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
"dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
*Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
- Gas (in the System)
- Pit
- Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
- Zoe Chu
pat
pat
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Sat Oct 7 02:14:05 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Sun Oct 8 03:10:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
In-Reply-To: <20061006.193646.3964.163.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20061007001405.51300.qmail@web55005.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Yes, Dropper: http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/media/archive/2613.gif --- David
ae.dropper@juno.com wrote:
Further ... I wonder if that part of that 0.01 second could also be the time it takes for TAS sub-systems to "make something" up to project as "in here - out there". The thought occurs of relating this "transient" to logos as meaning ... intention instead of to the personal identity.
Resonance anyone??? -- dbl
One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order. This
brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the static,
explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
universe.
Lynne
Does anyone else see a significant connection between these two posts?
pat
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 11:07:09 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:04:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Message-ID: <cc1.21ab47.3258c83d@aol.com>
Hi both,
What you both say below so much reminds me of something called "impulse
response" in acoustic measurement that I'll try and explain this. Hang in there
and see if this makes any sense to you in terms of Bohm's thinking. Brace
yourself, here it comes!:
There's a conventional way of measuring the quality of a piece of equipment,
say an amplifier. You put in sounds of different pitches but a constant
"level" (ie, volume), "sweeping" continuously over the course of ten seconds or
so, from low to high. The actual sound level going in is constant, and by
measuring the "level" (volume) of the sounds coming out and plotting a graph of
level against frequency, you can see how the equipment copes with sounds at
all pitches. This can give us what we call a "frequency response graph", which
is a quantifiable measure of what sort of "quality difference" the equipment
might impose. So for example, if it doesn't amplify the high pitches quite as
much as it amplifies everything else, we can see the graph dip at those
pitches; qualitatively the amplifier will sound muffled and by measuring it we
can put figures on it. Our ideal is that the equipment will transmit all the
pitches equally and give us a flat-line graph. Often it doesn't, but at least
we have a measure. Hope that makes sense so far.
The thing that blew my mind when I first found out about it, is that there's
another way of doing this measurement, called the "impulse response". This
produces the same results, a graph of how the equipment responds from low to
high pitches, but instead of putting in a sweep of pitches lasting 10 seconds,
you just put in a tiny "pulse" lasting a fraction of a second. This pulse is
just a very, very fast up-down movement. What's clever is that we can do an
analysis out of that and tell how the equipment responds at ALL pitches. In
that tiny pulse is contained all the information we need to produce a complete
frequency response graph from low to high. That's pretty amazing.
I've used similar technology in recording. I wanted to "capture" the sound
of the main hall at Berkeley castle here in Gloucestershire, UK, so I could add
it to my harp recordings and make it sound like I was playing in the castle.
What I did was just go and record myself popping a balloon in the hall. That
recording of what happens when the balloon pops, contains all the
information you need about the effect of all of the room surfaces in the hall as the
sound bounces around - effectively the equipment sees this as a mathematical
model of the hall with all its surfaces, including information about how "hard"
each surface is, where it is, and what angle it is in relation to the rest
of the hall. And by multiplying that, digitally, with the recording of my harp
in my studio, I can recreate the sound of the harp playing in the hall,
whenever I want. It has to do some serious processing on it and can't do it in
real time, but I'm constantly amazed that this sort of thing is possible - that
I can record my harp and reproduce how the sound bounces around that space,
all thanks to that recording of the balloon popping. Amazing!
I've never understood the enfolded / implicate thing, but if what I've said
above makes any sense at all to anyone, perhaps you could explain what this
might have to do with Bohm's thinking!!! I can see as I write this that there
might be some relation to a "hologram", albeit an audio version of it..,
Mark
Thank you so much for this whole piece!
One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order. This
brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the static,
explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
universe.
Lynne
On 10/5/06 9:54 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I see whatever the vibrations are that our ears pick up and our brain
> interprets as sound to be as close to the Implicate Order as I can get in
> the world of music.
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 11:16:25 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:13:20 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <bbc.5dac669.3258ca69@aol.com>
PS: as I sit in my studio recording my harp music, with the intention of
"adding" the sound of the hall afterwards to my recording, it occurs to me that
there is a difference, of course, from actually playing in the hall: I'm not
inspired by the beautiful furnishings, the sunlight playing through the
windows, the smell of polish and old tapestries, the sound of the building. I'm
just playing in a small room, and I have to imagine the rest.
I've used similar technology in recording. I wanted to "capture" the sound
of the main hall at Berkeley castle here in Gloucestershire, UK, so I could
add it to my harp recordings and make it sound like I was playing in the
castle. What I did was just go and record myself popping a balloon in the hall.
That recording of what happens when the balloon pops, contains all the
information you need about the effect of all of the room surfaces in the hall as the
sound bounces around - effectively the equipment sees this as a mathematical
model of the hall with all its surfaces, including information about how
"hard" each surface is, where it is, and what angle it is in relation to the rest
of the hall. And by multiplying that, digitally, with the recording of my
harp in my studio, I can recreate the sound of the harp playing in the hall,
whenever I want. It has to do some serious processing on it and can't do it in
real time, but I'm constantly amazed that this sort of thing is possible -
that I can record my harp and reproduce how the sound bounces around that
space, all thanks to that recording of the balloon popping. Amazing!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 11:46:38 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:43:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <20061006.192854.3964.159.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F15E5A48032781E17D33512A8100@phx.gbl>
Dear Dropper
Did you not
For get
A few
On/Off
This Chatclub ;-?
Dropper, you 're dropping it
Lovely
Love & Admiration, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>- Gas (in the System)
>- Pit
>- Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
>- Zoe Chu
>
>pat
>
>
>
>
>pat
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 11:53:06 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:50:02 2006
Subject: AW: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <BAY107-F215AF8E31F21EEF753E202A8100@phx.gbl>
Dear Zoe ~
Please please please
Do(not) too that
You are cracking
Them up ! (and me too)
This is serious serious serious
Stuff(ing) here
No No No Play!
It is a matter/mind of
Life ~ all'most
It is a bout the "future"
Of hu man un kind
It is a bout dia lo go go go ssss
The cutting thinkg
...... o boy o boy
This is starting
To get fun
Love & Tears, Pat
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Pat - A friend is one before whom I may think aloud. A man of genius is
>privileged only as far as he is genius. His dullness is as insupportable as
>any other dullness. Don't be too timid and squeamish about your actions.
>All life is an experiment. The more experiments you make the better. Insist
>on yourself; never imitate... Every great man is unique. Every hero becomes
>a bore at last. --- Don
>
>
>ae.dropper@juno.com wrote: Now we have another Pat writing from Zoe's
>MIT sleep lab?
>
> pat
>
> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 10:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
>writes:
> Kris --- Her sense of self-worth is constituted
> symbolically, her cherished narcissism feeds on symbols, on
> an abstract idea of his own worth, an idea composed of
> sounds, words, and images, in the air, in the mind, on paper.
> And this means that man's natural yearning for organismic
> activity, the pleasures of incorporation and expansion, can
> be fed limitlessly in the domain of symbols and so into
> immortality. The single organism can expand into dimensions
> of worlds and times without moving a physical limb; it can
> take eternity into itself even as it gaspingly dies.
>
> Pat
>
>ae.dropper@juno.com wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 15:09:28 -0400 ae.dropper@juno.com writes:
> > "Kirsten" & "Zoe" seem reminiscent of "One" & "Another." [2 characters
>in one peson]
> >
> > pat
>
> Now the "Kirsten" [Kris] [Hotmail] character writes from
> the "Zoe" [Yahoo] character's e-mail address.
>
> Maybe ""Zoe" is dozing over in the MIT sleep lab while "Kbot"
> hijacks her computer?
>
> pat
>
> ~~
>
> (from "Zoe" @Yahoo today)
>
> Kathryn , Tas is Though-As-a-System (a book also by Bohm), the 'whole'
>thinkg, you see... the super&structure that runs the show.
>
> As far as what it allows w/o breakdown:
>
> It pretty&ugly&much&little boils down to:
>
> DENIAL & REPRESSION & DECEPTION & LIES & ACTING & PRETENDING etc etc
>etc....
>
> good reading on that to start with: Ernest Becker's "denial of death"
>[I will send you a link to a private website that has a fair amount of the
>book online,,, but you cant post the link, copy-right issues!]. also:
>sigmund freud's "civilization and its discontents" [very tasty little
>pamphlet]... I am in a rush now... Ciao, Kris
>
>Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Whatever TAS is - what DOES it allow without causing a breakdown?
>Thanks, k
>
>
>On 10/5/06 2:03 PM, "kirsten schneide" wrote:
>
> > Thought going (trying to) after thought
> >
> > Is a malfunction (disorder) of the system (TAS)
> >
> > It is, literally, a sick proposal (thinkg)
> >
> > And (pushed to the 'extreme') TAS will not
> >
> > 'Allow" this
> >
> > A 'shut-down' (some liken to call it: mental disorder) is eminent ....
> >
> > Go for it Subscriber, if that is what you are:
> >
> > "Dying for"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kirsten," beentheredonethat"
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi
> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Bohm - On Love
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 11:35:51 -0400
> >>
> >> Yesterday I requested clarification of the statements below, especially
> >
> >>
> >> "How thought (TAS) 'really' works (no mind/body could take it!)".
>Perhaps,
> >> in my haste to leave, I did not explain well.
> >>
> >> I previously posted, asking if there have been correlations between the
> >> recent findings of cognitive neurobiology and Bohm's ideas on
>perception
> >> and
> >> intelligence. No one responded, so I assumed this was not an area too
> >> often
> >> investigated by our group members.
> >>
> >> When you made the statement I just quoted, I inferred and hoped that
>you
> >> might have some information on the relationship of recent developments
>in
> >> cognitive neurobiology and Bohm's ideas on perception and intelligence
>that
> >> you would/could share. Further, that and physics are the only areas
>that I
> >> can think of where Bohm's thinking might have been amplified by
>scientific
> >> experiments performed after his death. I cannot imagine that a man of
>his
> >> erudition had not explored all that which preceded and was current with
>his
> >> life.
> >>
> >> How the brain (housed in and connected to our bodies) works - certainly
>has
> >> bearing on dialog, definitions, meaning, the meaning of meaning, and
>all
> >> things related. It certainly is a component of "nature" as the
>intrinsic or
> >> essential character of somebody or something. It is of great importance
> >> because of its implications for the educational system, hence global
> >> society, and special interest for me because I am a teacher.
> >>
> >> I am hoping you (as well as our other members) have some information
>you
> >> are willing to share, best, k
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/4/06 4:27 PM, "kirsten schneide" wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Neither David Bohm nor Donf have understood the nature of the
>humanimal
> >>>
> >>> (A hand full plus of decades on this planet have not done the "trick")
>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The 'last' thinkg the humanimal wants is to get (to) this
> >>> "communication-thinkgiii
> >>>
> >>> Bohm/Dlialog 's drooling about ~ promisingsongsing to 'open'
> >> the
> >>> flood&gate to
> >>>
> >>> How thought (TAS) 'really' works (no mind/body could take it!) ~
> >> e
> >>> vent u all y
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> All wet & dreams ....
> >>>
> >>> But enter taming to watch, non-the-less
> >>>
> >>> Keep it up, Subscribed-ones!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Love & Pleasure, Kbot
> >>> --------------------------
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> YES, AND
> >>>>
> >>>> Communication has been ailing in the human race for a long time and
> >>>> Dialogue is concerned with that. But the primary purpose of Dialogue
> >> is
> >>>> not to communicate. It is much deeper. It addresses the blocks in
> >>>> communication, not merely to understand them, but to meet them
> >> directly.
> >>>> It is aimed at seeing resistances to communication. In Dialogue we
>are
> >>>> ready to raise topics serious enough to cause trouble. But while we
> >> are
> >>>> talking we are interested in being aware of what's going on inside us
> >> and
> >>>> between us. D Bohm
> >>>>
> >>>> Don
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
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>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 11:57:35 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:54:28 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <C14C6176.3633%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F33586CFF2C0D60E55FCDBEA8100@phx.gbl>
Dear Kathryn
Can you
Are you
Doing
Images
=
Ideas
http://www.casa-in-italia.com/artpx/flem/images/Goes_Vienna_Fall_of_man.JPG
Standing by for your Image i nations
Love & Ideal ist Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:39:34 -0400
>
>Is the the Peter Krauss who is a keyboard instructor in the Hudson Valley
>a Juilliard graduate? k
>
>
>On 10/6/06 7:27 PM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Kris -
> >
> > The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is
>stunning!
> > In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore
>answers
> > my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
> >
> > Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
> > (Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
> > The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
> > "dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
> >
> > *Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
> >
> > - Gas (in the System)
> > - Pit
> > - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
> > - Zoe Chu
> >
> > pat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > pat
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 12:00:02 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:56:53 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
In-Reply-To: <cc1.21ab47.3258c83d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F36999BE7C7754795C0E86EA8100@phx.gbl>
Dear Mark ~
Does that one reason&ate with&in you:
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bruegel/ejan26.JPG
Love & Loco & Motion, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 05:07:09 EDT
>
>
>
>Hi both,
>
>What you both say below so much reminds me of something called "impulse
>response" in acoustic measurement that I'll try and explain this. Hang in
>there
>and see if this makes any sense to you in terms of Bohm's thinking. Brace
>yourself, here it comes!:
>
>There's a conventional way of measuring the quality of a piece of
>equipment,
>say an amplifier. You put in sounds of different pitches but a constant
>"level" (ie, volume), "sweeping" continuously over the course of ten
>seconds or
>so, from low to high. The actual sound level going in is constant, and by
>measuring the "level" (volume) of the sounds coming out and plotting a
>graph of
>level against frequency, you can see how the equipment copes with sounds
>at
>all pitches. This can give us what we call a "frequency response graph",
>which
>is a quantifiable measure of what sort of "quality difference" the
>equipment
>might impose. So for example, if it doesn't amplify the high pitches quite
>as
>much as it amplifies everything else, we can see the graph dip at those
>pitches; qualitatively the amplifier will sound muffled and by measuring
>it we
>can put figures on it. Our ideal is that the equipment will transmit all
>the
>pitches equally and give us a flat-line graph. Often it doesn't, but at
>least
>we have a measure. Hope that makes sense so far.
>
>The thing that blew my mind when I first found out about it, is that
>there's
>another way of doing this measurement, called the "impulse response". This
>produces the same results, a graph of how the equipment responds from low
>to
>high pitches, but instead of putting in a sweep of pitches lasting 10
>seconds,
>you just put in a tiny "pulse" lasting a fraction of a second. This pulse
>is
>just a very, very fast up-down movement. What's clever is that we can do
>an
>analysis out of that and tell how the equipment responds at ALL pitches.
>In
>that tiny pulse is contained all the information we need to produce a
>complete
>frequency response graph from low to high. That's pretty amazing.
>
>I've used similar technology in recording. I wanted to "capture" the sound
>of the main hall at Berkeley castle here in Gloucestershire, UK, so I could
>add
> it to my harp recordings and make it sound like I was playing in the
>castle.
> What I did was just go and record myself popping a balloon in the hall.
>That
> recording of what happens when the balloon pops, contains all the
>information you need about the effect of all of the room surfaces in the
>hall as the
>sound bounces around - effectively the equipment sees this as a
>mathematical
>model of the hall with all its surfaces, including information about how
>"hard"
>each surface is, where it is, and what angle it is in relation to the rest
>of the hall. And by multiplying that, digitally, with the recording of my
>harp
>in my studio, I can recreate the sound of the harp playing in the hall,
>whenever I want. It has to do some serious processing on it and can't do
>it in
>real time, but I'm constantly amazed that this sort of thing is possible -
>that
>I can record my harp and reproduce how the sound bounces around that
>space,
>all thanks to that recording of the balloon popping. Amazing!
>
>I've never understood the enfolded / implicate thing, but if what I've said
>above makes any sense at all to anyone, perhaps you could explain what this
>might have to do with Bohm's thinking!!! I can see as I write this that
>there
>might be some relation to a "hologram", albeit an audio version of it..,
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>Thank you so much for this whole piece!
>
>One thing that stood out for me when I first started reading Bohm was his
>statement that music was a direct experience of the implicate order. This
>brought the theory out of the abstract for me into something I could
>experience. He went on to apply the same principles to the visual
>perception of motion, & went on to say this direct experience of the
>implicate IS our primary experience, where the the experience of the
>static,
>explicate order is learned & secondary. This felt not only right, but
>validating for me, helping to break out from the old model of a static
>universe.
>
>Lynne
>
>
>On 10/5/06 9:54 PM, "Kathryn Arizmendi" <tangykatt@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I see whatever the vibrations are that our ears pick up and our brain
> > interprets as sound to be as close to the Implicate Order as I can get
>in
> > the world of music.
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more…then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 12:00:09 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 12:57:04 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <bbc.5dac669.3258ca69@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14CF2E9.363D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Hi Mark ? I?m just on my first cup of coffee, but here is my initial
response.
I find what you did pretty amazing, too. The idea of popping a balloon and
getting all the information you need sounds to me like the idea of
structures enfolded into a single whole that contains all possibilities.
The alchemists, I believe it was, called this the monad. So did Pythagoras.
I have a book on the archetypal shapes that underlie the construction of the
Universe ? or Multiverse ? as you will. The circle is the basic, is called
the monad, and as it divides into other shapes that are all connected ?
amazingly similar to the way a human fetus develops ? we have all the shapes
that underlie everything else. As I read this book, I wondered how many of
these ideas underlie or coincide with Bohm?s thinking. But that?s another
topic.
You explained it very well, and yes, I see the parallel.
Now ? my turn to ask you a question. Do you improvise? If so, how did you
get into it?
Best, k
On 10/7/06 5:16 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> PS: as I sit in my studio recording my harp music, with the intention of
> "adding" the sound of the hall afterwards to my recording, it occurs to me
> that there is a difference, of course, from actually playing in the hall: I'm
> not inspired by the beautiful furnishings, the sunlight playing through the
> windows, the smell of polish and old tapestries, the sound of the building.
> I'm just playing in a small room, and I have to imagine the rest.
>> I've used similar technology in recording. I wanted to "capture" the sound
>> of the main hall at Berkeley castle here in Gloucestershire, UK, so I could
>> add it to my harp recordings and make it sound like I was playing in the
>> castle. What I did was just go and record myself popping a balloon in the
>> hall. That recording of what happens when the balloon pops, contains all the
>> information you need about the effect of all of the room surfaces in the
>> hall as the sound bounces around - effectively the equipment sees this as a
>> mathematical model of the hall with all its surfaces, including information
>> about how "hard" each surface is, where it is, and what angle it is in
>> relation to the rest of the hall. And by multiplying that, digitally, with
>> the recording of my harp in my studio, I can recreate the sound of the harp
>> playing in the hall, whenever I want. It has to do some serious processing
>> on it and can't do it in real time, but I'm constantly amazed that this sort
>> of thing is possible - that I can record my harp and reproduce how the sound
>> bounces around that space, all thanks to that recording of the balloon
>> popping. Amazing!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 12:03:52 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:00:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F15E5A48032781E17D33512A8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14CF3C8.3642%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Good Morning, Peter -
I'm delighted that you have such a great musical background. Our dialog can
take on greater depth, and I won't have to break my ---- putting technical
musical vocabulary into layman's terms.
I do no take such a nihilistic view of thought. It's what you do with it
that counts.
love and delight, k
On 10/7/06 5:46 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Dropper
>
> Did you not
>
> For get
>
> A few
>
> On/Off
>
> This Chatclub ;-?
>
>
>
> Dropper, you 're dropping it
>
> Lovely
>
>
>
> Love & Admiration, Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> - Gas (in the System)
>> - Pit
>> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
>> - Zoe Chu
>>
>> pat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> pat
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 12:13:49 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:10:43 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F33586CFF2C0D60E55FCDBEA8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14CF61D.3644%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Hi again, Peter-Kris -
Long ago I came to terms with the nonsense encoded in the Adam and Eve myth.
The snake is the symbol of regeneration. Shedding the skin that no longer
fits. Living comfortably with change.
As for images, you brought me back to my Navajo world. I must get my books
on their language, imagery, and philosophy out of storage in the basement
where I entombed them as part of dealing with the crossing over of my
husband, and the loss of a life I could not continue without him.
I don't know how to do images on the internet - email - but yes, I'm back in
touch with that.
Do you improvise? Musical composition lets you go back and change your
mind. Improvisation is "...the moving finger writes, and having writ moves
on...". Scary, challenging, exhilarating?
Love and idea l -ist back to you, k
On 10/7/06 5:57 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Kathryn
>
> Can you
>
> Are you
>
> Doing
>
> Images
>
> =
>
> Ideas
>
>
>
>
> http://www.casa-in-italia.com/artpx/flem/images/Goes_Vienna_Fall_of_man.JPG
>
>
>
>
> Standing by for your Image i nations
>
> Love & Ideal ist Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
>> Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:39:34 -0400
>>
>> Is the the Peter Krauss who is a keyboard instructor in the Hudson Valley ?
>> a Juilliard graduate? k
>>
>>
>> On 10/6/06 7:27 PM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Kris -
>>>
>>> The writing in the email from your address, and signed "Pat" is
>> stunning!
>>> In both content and style. I am assuming it is you, and therefore
>> answers
>>> my question about what your creative medium is. ... (Kathy)
>>>
>>> Kathy, this is one of many uncredited quotes he
>>> (Peter Krauss, alies Kirsten Schneide) has sent from
>>> The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. The last line about
>>> "dialogue" was probably peter's* contribution.
>>>
>>> *Some of Peter Krauss's alies's:
>>>
>>> - Gas (in the System)
>>> - Pit
>>> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
>>> - Zoe Chu
>>>
>>> pat
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> pat
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
> route! http://local.live.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sat Oct 7 12:14:03 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:10:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Back grounding
In-Reply-To: <C14CF3C8.3642%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F1704F4487FDFB3362E8A64A8100@phx.gbl>
Good After Noon Peter,
Can i have a cup, bowl, ball of that (toxic) stuff that you are pouring down
your pipe/system too ;-?
http://tinyurl.com/ewfzg
Ps: That 's "me"
How a bout an image = idea about you?
Love & Coffeeiing, Kathyrn
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Good Morning, Peter -
>
>I'm delighted that you have such a great musical background. Our dialog can
>take on greater depth, and I won't have to break my ---- putting technical
>musical vocabulary into layman's terms.
>
>I do no take such a nihilistic view of thought. It's what you do with it
>that counts.
>
>love and delight, k
>
>
>
>
>On 10/7/06 5:46 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Dropper
> >
> > Did you not
> >
> > For get
> >
> > A few
> >
> > On/Off
> >
> > This Chatclub ;-?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dropper, you 're dropping it
> >
> > Lovely
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Admiration, Kbot
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >> - Gas (in the System)
> >> - Pit
> >> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
> >> - Zoe Chu
> >>
> >> pat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> pat
> >
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get today's hot entertainment gossip
>http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 12:40:26 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:37:21 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Back grounding
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F1704F4487FDFB3362E8A64A8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14CFC5A.3647%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
How nice to wake up to such fun conversation!!
I am visualizing a cup of this delicious Habanero Espresso con leche
cappuchino, and sending the image to you.
The image of me I send is of a piano keyboard, and a woman struggling to
backtrack and turn the mechanistic musical experiences of a lifetime into
creative ones. I was poorly trained. But my Dalcroze, although terribly
fragmented, gave me new hope. I'm filling in the gaps. Great way to spend
the "Golden Years". Beats the *** out of Bingo! Oh yes - I started lessons
at 5. You? Juilliard Prep - and before that?
Another image of myself - one who has retained the right to choose.
I was just in your old neighborhood yesterday - Juilliard. That place can
"train" the life's blood out of you! I taught Eurhythmics there in the
Outreach Division its first year. I wasn't properly prepared in the are of
improv, so it was miserable.
Now I know why you know so much about tango! Have you composed anything
recently?
Me - my favorite music is Flamenco, next comes Salsa, then Bach, Beethoven,
Brahms, Puerto Rican indigenous music, and African drumming. If I had to
select one mode I prefer, it would be Phrygian, Next comes Dorian. Of
course, Locrian is fun, too. You?
I read something in "Thought as a Process" last night that bothers me. Its
brewing in my subconscious, and will eventually find its way to a posting.
I'll be looking forward to your response.
If I find a way to post images, it will be fun to try to speak that way.
I'm working on it!
Love, Coffeeiing, MusiKiiing, and Dialoging! k
On 10/7/06 6:14 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Good After Noon Peter,
>
> Can i have a cup, bowl, ball of that (toxic) stuff that you are pouring down
> your pipe/system too ;-?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ewfzg
>
> Ps: That 's "me"
>
> How a bout an image = idea about you?
>
> Love & Coffeeiing, Kathyrn
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>> Good Morning, Peter -
>>
>> I'm delighted that you have such a great musical background. Our dialog can
>> take on greater depth, and I won't have to break my ---- putting technical
>> musical vocabulary into layman's terms.
>>
>> I do no take such a nihilistic view of thought. It's what you do with it
>> that counts.
>>
>> love and delight, k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/7/06 5:46 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Dropper
>>>
>>> Did you not
>>>
>>> For get
>>>
>>> A few
>>>
>>> On/Off
>>>
>>> This Chatclub ;-?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dropper, you 're dropping it
>>>
>>> Lovely
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Admiration, Kbot
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>> - Gas (in the System)
>>>> - Pit
>>>> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
>>>> - Zoe Chu
>>>>
>>>> pat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pat
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get today's hot entertainment gossip
>> http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 12:45:12 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:42:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Back grounding
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F1704F4487FDFB3362E8A64A8100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14CFD78.3648%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
PS
Lest you come to the wrong conclusion - my natal ethnic culture is Deep
South Celtic Southern Methodist minister's family. k
On 10/7/06 6:14 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Good After Noon Peter,
>
> Can i have a cup, bowl, ball of that (toxic) stuff that you are pouring down
> your pipe/system too ;-?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ewfzg
>
> Ps: That 's "me"
>
> How a bout an image = idea about you?
>
> Love & Coffeeiing, Kathyrn
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>> Good Morning, Peter -
>>
>> I'm delighted that you have such a great musical background. Our dialog can
>> take on greater depth, and I won't have to break my ---- putting technical
>> musical vocabulary into layman's terms.
>>
>> I do no take such a nihilistic view of thought. It's what you do with it
>> that counts.
>>
>> love and delight, k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/7/06 5:46 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Dropper
>>>
>>> Did you not
>>>
>>> For get
>>>
>>> A few
>>>
>>> On/Off
>>>
>>> This Chatclub ;-?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dropper, you 're dropping it
>>>
>>> Lovely
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Admiration, Kbot
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>> - Gas (in the System)
>>>> - Pit
>>>> - Kirsten Schneide (Kris)
>>>> - Zoe Chu
>>>>
>>>> pat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pat
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get today's hot entertainment gossip
>> http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 12:45:26 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:42:27 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Message-ID: <cba.22ca04.3258df46@aol.com>
Hi - it does. I see something ecological in it. It looks like overpopulation
threatening to destroy a beautiful landscape. And yes, I love the movement
in it.
Dear Mark ~
Does that one reason&ate with&in you:
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bruegel/ejan26.JPG
Love & Loco & Motion, Kirsten
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 12:56:12 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:53:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <bcf.3e305cc.3258e1cc@aol.com>
That's interesting. The circle being the basic.
In another form of analysis, you can (as you know, of course!!) analyse a
note into harmonics, and each harmonic is a sine wave. Any waveform can be
analysed out into its component sinewaves - the impulse I mentioned earlier (the
one used for testing equipment) can be analysed into sinewaves of all
frequencies rather than just the mathematically-related ones of harmonics.
But - get this - the sine wave is generated out of a cirle. If you rotate a
cirle and plot out the vertial displacement of any point on its circumference
against time, you end up with a sinewave. That makes my hair stand up after
waht you've just said about the archetype shape. Also of course, some cultures
see time as a cycle. We see it as a linear dimension and that then gives us
a sense that the future is a destination "somewhere else" rather than a
somewhen springing out of the present (which itself is a function of how we were
in the past).
As to your other question - I do improvise sometimes. But sometimes I find
it isn't rich, and sometimes it is. Sometimes I give myself limitations (a few
notes, say) and that's often very generative. As you play with fewer notes
you go from melody to pattern. Proabably an interesting conversation in itself!
Somewhere I've got an amazing interview about this - based on the patterns
possible with a reconstruced 4500 year old harp which a friend has rebuilt
based on an item looted from the Baghdad museum.
Hi Mark ? I?m just on my first cup of coffee, but here is my initial
response.
I find what you did pretty amazing, too. The idea of popping a balloon and
getting all the information you need sounds to me like the idea of structures
enfolded into a single whole that contains all possibilities. The
alchemists, I believe it was, called this the monad. So did Pythagoras. I have a
book on the archetypal shapes that underlie the construction of the Universe ?
or Multiverse ? as you will. The circle is the basic, is called the monad,
and as it divides into other shapes that are all connected ? amazingly similar
to the way a human fetus develops ? we have all the shapes that underlie
everything else. As I read this book, I wondered how many of these ideas
underlie or coincide with Bohm?s thinking. But that?s another topic.
You explained it very well, and yes, I see the parallel.
Now ? my turn to ask you a question. Do you improvise? If so, how did you
get into it?
Best, k
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 13:02:42 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 13:59:36 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <9e.59261e70.3258e352@aol.com>
Forgot to answer the second question: I got into it at a very young age. I
think there's something very comforting about it.
Do you improvise? If so, how did you get into it?
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 13:06:49 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:03:43 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <bcf.3e305cc.3258e1cc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D0289.3651%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
The study of species counterpoint is supposed to give us a bare bones
melody. I find so far, it only leads to the interplay between consonance &
dissonance, and what Matthieu calls reciprocal and overtonal images.
As for sine waves, I?d like to investigate that. It seems to be an enfolded
level of music-sound that I?m not aware of. I was asking what happens to
create the waves of energy that eventually are interpreted as sound by the
body?s hearing mechanism which is connected to the brain. Somehow that
question got lost in the discussion of other aspects.
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle of
what? k
On 10/7/06 6:56 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> As you play with fewer notes you go from melody to pattern.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 12:51:25 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:05:25 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFD2C5133A.5B17E3FE-ON85257200.003B960B-85257200.003BA3B8@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Don L, I think impatience may be influencing your
interpretation. I am in the process of reading up on Permendes, Heraclitus,
etc., but because I am not able to fulfill this task quickly enough for
you, you keep assuming there is no intent/ interest in the inquiry. _R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Rodger, what logic (logos) is it that says we should ignore Bohm's having
cited and been influenced by Parmenides and Heraclitus as well as
influenced by the particular interpretation he read?
.
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 13:08:23 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:05:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: transient - animals
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFD2A29480.49CF0604-ON85257200.003C4D09-85257200.003D3162@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Kathryn, 27 horses is no small feat. It is my experience with
animals, wild or domestic, that they listen to that speech music, not
words, but the transient sound of a word or human voice.
When images are held clearly in mind and aligned with ones speech music, in
my experience, animals enjoy the shared understanding._R
.
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
I also focus on ?speech music? when I interact with horses, cats,
and dogs.
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 13:11:24 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:08:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <bcf.3e305cc.3258e1cc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D039C.3657%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Oh yes ? in the interest of clarity, I personally see time as a cycle,
although my cultural background sees it otherwise. Actually, my roots are
Celtic and Native American, largely Celtic. Found out my grandmother on my
father?s side was 100% Irish. Before Cesar used Christianity as a weapon,
we had more in common with Native American than with the cultural origins of
Christianity. I?ve just discovered Irish folk music, jigs, etc. They?re
incredible! k
On 10/7/06 6:56 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> some cultures see time as a cycle. We see it as a linear dimension and that
> then gives us a sense that the future is a destination "somewhere else" rather
> than a somewhen springing out of the present (which itself is a function of
> how we were in the past).
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 13:16:47 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:13:43 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <c71.1c5ba30.3258e69f@aol.com>
I think this is a potentially really interesting discussion. I've often
wondered how we interpret all this "stuff" as sound. If you chop a steady
sinewave into smaller and smaller bits, there comes a point where the pitch
disappears. I think from memory we need a couple of cycles of the sound to make sense
of it. I'll experiment at some point and put up some clickable illustrations
on the web. Might be fun and something to spark a discussion!!
By the way, I think that's the most AMAZING question you asked at the end:
"a circle of what?". I'm going to have to lie down in a darkened room to
contemplate that one. When I realised what you'd asked, I have to say that felt
like I was touching something very deep and unknown.
As for sine waves, I?d like to investigate that. It seems to be an enfolded
level of music-sound that I?m not aware of. I was asking what happens to
create the waves of energy that eventually are interpreted as sound by the body
?s hearing mechanism which is connected to the brain. Somehow that question
got lost in the discussion of other aspects.
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle of
what?
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 13:20:00 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:17:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos & dialogos
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF797B5999.B7176153-ON85257200.003E13F0-85257200.003E419B@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Wow - your whole piece on Logos and dialogue was very cool Pat!
_R
.
From: ae.dropper@juno.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
.
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 13:20:53 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:17:47 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: transient - animals
In-Reply-To: <OFD2A29480.49CF0604-ON85257200.003C4D09-85257200.003D3162@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C14D05D6.365B%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Yes. It?s a wonderful experience. I didn?t have to clean up the horses?
stables, but I exercised, bathed and groomed them. Nursed some of them.
One poor stallion was gelded, and developed an infection. Some of the
stories I could tell, many people wouldn?t believe. This was near
Scottsdale, AZ ? a boarding, training facility that was understaffed. I
took care of the ones whose owners were in arrears on their payment, and so
didn?t get the attention they needed. They not only understood me, but they
had their ways of communicating with me. I had never been around horses
before, and did this on a volunteer basis, Got a little riding instruction
out of it, but much pleasure and experience.
Have you worked with animals in any capacity other than as pets? k
On 10/7/06 7:08 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger __Hi Kathryn, 27 horses is no small feat. It is my experience with
> animals, wild or domestic, that they listen to that speech music, not words,
> but the transient sound of a word or human voice.
>
> When images are held clearly in mind and aligned with ones speech music, in my
> experience, animals enjoy the shared understanding._R
> .
> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> .
> I also focus on ?speech music? when I interact with horses, cats,
> and dogs.
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 13:23:16 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:20:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <c71.1c5ba30.3258e69f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D0664.365C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Great. I look forward to deepening understanding.
On 10/7/06 7:16 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> I think this is a potentially really interesting discussion. I've often
> wondered how we interpret all this "stuff" as sound. If you chop a steady
> sinewave into smaller and smaller bits, there comes a point where the pitch
> disappears. I think from memory we need a couple of cycles of the sound to
> make sense of it. I'll experiment at some point and put up some clickable
> illustrations on the web. Might be fun and something to spark a discussion!!
>
> By the way, I think that's the most AMAZING question you asked at the end: "a
> circle of what?". I'm going to have to lie down in a darkened room to
> contemplate that one. When I realised what you'd asked, I have to say that
> felt like I was touching something very deep and unknown.
>> As for sine waves, I?d like to investigate that. It seems to be an enfolded
>> level of music-sound that I?m not aware of. I was asking what happens to
>> create the waves of energy that eventually are interpreted as sound by the
>> body?s hearing mechanism which is connected to the brain. Somehow that
>> question got lost in the discussion of other aspects.
>>
>> But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle of
>> what?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From donlay at gte.net Sat Oct 7 13:28:13 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:25:09 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
References: <20061006.192854.3964.158.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <008801c6ea03$afab5300$9a0e153f@DL01>
Pat, apology. I cannot find what I thought was Tillichian treatment of doxa. Actually, I believe I confused it with his treatment of Heteronomy, Autonomy and Theonomy which he relates with logos as ontological reason. -- dbl
*There are only 3 "dox" words in the dictionary.
Orthodox - Right Opinion.
Heterodox - Other Opinion.
Paradox - Beyond Opinion -- pat
Yes. Incidentally you might find Tillich's treatment of this most fasinating. Source upon request. -- dbl
Source please.
pat
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
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From donlay at gte.net Sat Oct 7 13:27:35 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:25:12 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
References: <OFF4765EB3.9CE213BE-ON852571FA.00431EF7-852571FA.00441DF2@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <008401c6ea03$9efadd00$9a0e153f@DL01>
which raises a question; how could I have a clue of what Bohm was talking about, if I hadn't met or read Parmenides and Heraclitus? -- Rodger
I don't know, but thought occurs of 90% of communication being non verbal. Non verbal as absence of words also means absence of arbitrary specificity of definition (limitation). Maybe arbitrary, manmade definitions (words) could be something like manmade pollution that would actually hinder communication? -- Don L
From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
Rodger __Hi Don L, I have been fortunate enough to spend considerable time with Bohm, but have spent NO time conversing with Parmenides and Heraclitus. Nor unfortunately read any books of their thinking -- which raises a question; how could I have a clue of what Bohm was talking about, if I hadn't met or read Parmenides and Heraclitus?
On the other hand, I am eager to pursue the line-of-thought that you refer to, running from Parmenides and Heraclitus to Bohm. But some serious reading and then some thought of my own -solo improv- is taking place._R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Why not go back a lot further, as does Bohm, to Parmenides, Heraclitus?
-- Don L
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
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post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 13:30:58 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:27:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <426.ad8228a.3258e9f2@aol.com>
That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you know
anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking about is a scientific
take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere is just a 3-D circle....
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle
of what?
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 13:42:33 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 14:39:30 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <426.ad8228a.3258e9f2@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D0AE9.3660%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Yes, this is Pythagoras. There?s a lot about him on the internet. I?m
working on improv right now, but when i take a break, I?ll find my books and
send you the titles. k
On 10/7/06 7:30 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you know
> anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking about is a
> scientific take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere is just a 3-D
> circle....
>> But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle
>> of what?
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 14:18:54 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 15:15:51 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFB09C1406.9496DAE6-ON85257200.003EA5A1-85257200.0043A5FC@dialogos.com>
Rodger __I think in dialogue, when a relevant topic is met with resistance,
the person being resisted needs to continue to find ways of clarifying the
meaning of the topic.
I remember in earlier dialogues, with Bohm and so many scientists
mathematicians etc, there was considerable resistance to the topic that
feelings were an essntial part of inquiry.
Shared meaning of that topic required a few people to continuously raise
the topic with increasingly clear examples -- when/ how feelings were
behind the idea of being rational.
Of course, it was at times when feelings were extreme, that those clear
examples were most needed, re: HOW feelings were directing ideas about the
inquiry staying rational.
And this is not about teenage-parent-issues or anti authority reactions
etc.
At that time, to tell everyone they needed to see the -truth- about their
feelings, probably wouldnt have opened many doors for inquiry. _R
.
From: ae.dropper@juno.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
.
If this is coherent or if it is consistent with
what you would like to say, it would seem significant
in that bohm Always qualified the Logos part of Dia Logos
in his reference being not to "the word" but to "the meaning
[of the word]."
pat
.
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 15:30:16 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 16:28:12 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF1835EB3E.2E132049-ON85257200.0045B432-85257200.004A2EC3@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Hi Dorothy (at your sisters) -- I am still looking for the BBC
documentary I saw but until I find it, these are a bit interesting._R
The Human Cerebral Cortex: Gender Differences in Structure and Function,
Gabrielle M. de Courten-Myers, MD.
apt.allenpress.com/aptonline
In conclusion; superimposed on a strong background of functional and
structural equality, human male and female cerebral cortex display
distinct, sexually dimorphic features, which can begin to be linked to a
complex array of gender-specific advantages and limitations in cognitive
functions.
ALSO --http://www.asbj.com/current/coverstory.html
.
.
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 15:49:26 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 16:46:23 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
Message-ID: <31c.b3b862a.32590a66@aol.com>
Is that why I can never find my car keys?
In conclusion; superimposed on a strong background of functional and
structural equality, human male and female cerebral cortex display distinct,
sexually dimorphic features, which can begin to be linked to a complex array of
gender-specific advantages and limitations in cognitive functions.
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 16:04:47 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 17:01:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
In-Reply-To: <31c.b3b862a.32590a66@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D2C3F.3666%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Mark ? I have to give mine a specific location, on a hook by the front door,
and put them there every time I walk in, precisely when I get through the
door! Glasses, too. Always have. I?ve been a girl all my life!
What the study doesn?t address is whether these differences are ?hard wired?
at birth, or culturally inculcated. And if it did, I wonder what the built
in cultural biases are? Read
Damasio AR: The Feeling of What Happens: Body and Emotion in the Making of
Consciousness, for starters.
Back to improv! k
On 10/7/06 9:49 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Is that why I can never find my car keys?
>> In conclusion; superimposed on a strong background of functional and
>> structural equality, human male and female cerebral cortex display distinct,
>> sexually dimorphic features, which can begin to be linked to a complex array
>> of gender-specific advantages and limitations in cognitive functions.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 19:02:28 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:06:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
Message-ID: <20061007.130800.3964.172.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Improvisation is "...the moving finger writes, and having writ moves
on...". Scary, challenging, exhilarating?
Hear Hear!!
pat
From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 18:47:22 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:07:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <20061007.130800.3964.170.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Beautiful dialoguing!. (Never underestimate 'lying down in a darkened
room to contemplate') And Kathryn, your speaking of improvisation makes
me wonder "why do anything else?"
pat
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 07:30:58 EDT MarkHarmer@aol.com writes:
That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you know
anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking about is a
scientific take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere is just a 3-D
circle....
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A
circle of what?
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 19:02:47 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:07:02 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <20061007.130800.3964.173.ae.dropper@juno.com>
I don't think the "impatience" is with you.
pat
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 06:51:25 -0400 Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com writes:
Rodger __Hi Don L, I think impatience may be influencing your
interpretation. I am in the process of reading up on Permendes,
Heraclitus, etc., but because I am not able to fulfill this task quickly
enough for you, you keep assuming there is no intent/ interest in the
inquiry. _R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Rodger, what logic (logos) is it that says we should ignore Bohm's having
cited and been influenced by Parmenides and Heraclitus as well as
influenced by the particular interpretation he read?
.
.
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Sat Oct 7 19:02:04 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:07:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Message-ID: <20061007.130800.3964.171.ae.dropper@juno.com>
I've never understood the enfolded / implicate thing, but if what I've
said above makes any sense at all to anyone, perhaps you could explain
what this might have to do with Bohm's thinking!!! I can see as I write
this that there might be some relation to a "hologram", albeit an audio
version of it..,
Mark
"The whole is in each part." The "whole" "explicates" itself as
"parts." There is "participation" between "part" and "whole."
This is dynamic, ongoing, participation. Where this participation
between part and whole is realized or appreciated, creative
relationship [oneness] between part and part appears.
Seeing this in relationship to physics really
gives a sense of confirmation to the intuition.
The double slit experiment is a good place to
start. It appears that that electron aimed at
the two slits was not simply the "particle" it
was thought to be. Appearances deceive. They are
"tips of iceburgs" sans iceburgs, surrounding land, etc..
Much is hidden from the five senses [as we know,
but it is amazing to what degree].
pat
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 19:17:44 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:14:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Message-ID: <c25.6352209.32593b38@aol.com>
Pat - thank you! It's all starting to make sense to me! I still, for some
reason, think of ecology, of the way that connections exist which we can't see /
appreciate / fathom. There's a famous example in "the ecology of commerce"
which looks at decline in frog populations. Apparently no-one noticed it as a
connected pattern until people got talking casually in a break at a wildlife
conference. So perhaps it's through connecting with each other (as we do on
this list) that we start to see how some of the parts connect, although at the
same time we'll probably never see all the connections.
I think Bohm once said that what is there is "what we notice" at any given
time against a background of inifinitely qualities. I'm intersted in the
quality too of some of the discussions - where "bits" of emails, even perhaps the
odd word, can spark new trains of thought. Is that what you mean by beautiful
dialoguing? Because sometimes it does seem a beautiful process.
"The whole is in each part." The "whole" "explicates" itself as
"parts." There is "participation" between "part" and "whole."
This is dynamic, ongoing, participation. Where this participation
between part and whole is realized or appreciated, creative
relationship [oneness] between part and part appears.
Seeing this in relationship to physics really
gives a sense of confirmation to the intuition.
The double slit experiment is a good place to
start. It appears that that electron aimed at
the two slits was not simply the "particle" it
was thought to be. Appearances deceive. They are
"tips of iceburgs" sans iceburgs, surrounding land, etc..
Much is hidden from the five senses [as we know,
but it is amazing to what degree].
pat
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From tubakari at yahoo.com Sat Oct 7 19:31:44 2006
From: tubakari at yahoo.com (Karilen Mays)
Date: Sun Oct 8 20:28:44 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <20061007173144.62729.qmail@web52915.mail.yahoo.com>
the music of the spheres makes me think of pythagoras for some reason.
----- Original Message ----
From: "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com>
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2006 4:30:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you know anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking about is a scientific take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere is just a 3-D circle....
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle of what?
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 20:25:05 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 21:22:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue For Kris
In-Reply-To: <20061007.130800.3964.172.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C14D6941.3673%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Preparing adequately to do this means discovering, understanding and putting
on "automatic" all the patterns, structures, and relationships that allow
you to live in the moment. There is no need to hold on to the momentary
manifestation of the music, because you can always create another that
expresses self in relation to all that has changed. If you want, you can
record for whatever purpose. For instance, if you want to share that
meaning with someone else, and they're not there. But some day, I hope to
find a couple of other people to "dialog" with in the language of music.
Glad you like the ideas. Best, k
On 10/7/06 1:02 PM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
> Improvisation is "...the moving finger writes, and having writ moves
> on...". Scary, challenging, exhilarating?
>
> Hear Hear!!
>
> pat
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
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> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
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>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sat Oct 7 20:40:05 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sun Oct 8 21:37:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <bcf.3e305cc.3258e1cc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14D6CC5.3675%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Mark, along these lines, you might find these interesting:
Roob, ?The Hermetic Museum, Alchemy and Mysticism? & Schneider, ?A
Beginner?s Guide to Constructing the Universe?.
Great information, and beautiful illustrations.
I don?t think Bohm would mind if we look for enfolded structures and
connections there. k
On 10/7/06 6:56 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> That's interesting. The circle being the basic.
>
> In another form of analysis, you can (as you know, of course!!) analyse a note
> into harmonics, and each harmonic is a sine wave. Any waveform can be analysed
> out into its component sinewaves - the impulse I mentioned earlier (the one
> used for testing equipment) can be analysed into sinewaves of all frequencies
> rather than just the mathematically-related ones of harmonics.
>
> But - get this - the sine wave is generated out of a cirle. If you rotate a
> cirle and plot out the vertial displacement of any point on its circumference
> against time, you end up with a sinewave. That makes my hair stand up after
> waht you've just said about the archetype shape. Also of course, some cultures
> see time as a cycle. We see it as a linear dimension and that then gives us a
> sense that the future is a destination "somewhere else" rather than a somewhen
> springing out of the present (which itself is a function of how we were in the
> past).
>
> As to your other question - I do improvise sometimes. But sometimes I find it
> isn't rich, and sometimes it is. Sometimes I give myself limitations (a few
> notes, say) and that's often very generative. As you play with fewer notes you
> go from melody to pattern. Proabably an interesting conversation in itself!
> Somewhere I've got an amazing interview about this - based on the patterns
> possible with a reconstruced 4500 year old harp which a friend has rebuilt
> based on an item looted from the Baghdad museum.
>> Hi Mark ? I?m just on my first cup of coffee, but here is my initial
>> response.
>>
>> I find what you did pretty amazing, too. The idea of popping a balloon and
>> getting all the information you need sounds to me like the idea of structures
>> enfolded into a single whole that contains all possibilities. The
>> alchemists, I believe it was, called this the monad. So did Pythagoras. I
>> have a book on the archetypal shapes that underlie the construction of the
>> Universe ? or Multiverse ? as you will. The circle is the basic, is called
>> the monad, and as it divides into other shapes that are all connected ?
>> amazingly similar to the way a human fetus develops ? we have all the shapes
>> that underlie everything else. As I read this book, I wondered how many of
>> these ideas underlie or coincide with Bohm?s thinking. But that?s another
>> topic.
>>
>> You explained it very well, and yes, I see the parallel.
>>
>> Now ? my turn to ask you a question. Do you improvise? If so, how did you
>> get into it?
>>
>> Best, k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sat Oct 7 20:47:40 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Sun Oct 8 21:44:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <bf3.2e3395.3259504c@aol.com>
Hi Kathy,
Thanks for these - I'll look them out. Great titles!!
Mark, along these lines, you might find these interesting:
Roob, ?The Hermetic Museum, Alchemy and Mysticism? & Schneider, ?A Beginner?
s Guide to Constructing the Universe?.
Great information, and beautiful illustrations.
I don?t think Bohm would mind if we look for enfolded structures and
connections there. k
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Sat Oct 7 21:04:32 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Sun Oct 8 22:01:27 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <20061007.130800.3964.170.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <20061007190433.73201.qmail@web55004.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Pat - Beautiful? Why "beauitful"? --- Zoe
ae.dropper@juno.com wrote: Beautiful dialoguing!. (Never underestimate 'lying down in a darkened
room to contemplate') And Kathryn, your speaking of improvisation makes
me wonder "why do anything else?"
pat
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 07:30:58 EDT MarkHarmer@aol.com writes:
That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you know anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking about is a scientific take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere is just a 3-D circle....
But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A circle of what?
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sat Oct 7 23:36:12 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 00:33:17 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
In-Reply-To: <20061008100002.6AC10239D1@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFE1B2DB2E.D558539A-ON85257200.007581B5-85257200.0076ABD2@dialogos.com>
Rodger __ Many years ago I discovered that someone had placed a small
article of mine on a website for the two founders of the Emissaries of
Divine Light.
I was neither asked nor informed that my article was to be in that
websiteI.
But I did write the article, and stand by that, plus, Martin, one of the
two founders on the website was a good friend-- so what the heck, why not?
The downside is that if people google my name they find me on a website of
founders of Emissaries-of-Divine Light, and jump to obvious conclusions
about my being in an organization which, as far as I know, moved on when
its founders did. _R
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