From ae.dropper at juno.com Sun Oct 8 00:49:42 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 01:48:12 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
Message-ID: <20061007.155008.3679.1137675@webmail16.lax.untd.com>
Rodger, I figure you can't get any worse than 'totally wrong' which our assumptions about each other amount to anyway.
pat
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061007/1dc558fc/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 01:53:04 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 02:50:05 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
In-Reply-To: <20061007.155008.3679.1137675@webmail16.lax.untd.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2401676E755F6D926743ABA8100@phx.gbl>
Dear Dropper Pat ~
Dido you ever make your mommy proud (of 'you')?
Is mommy proud of the Pats?
...... + - what about: Daddy.
Love & Reality & Checks, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>Rodger, I figure you can't get any worse than 'totally wrong' which our
>assumptions about each other amount to anyway.
>pat
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 01:55:33 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 02:52:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
In-Reply-To: <OFE1B2DB2E.D558539A-ON85257200.007581B5-85257200.0076ABD2@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F21410C123089AC43C1123CA8100@phx.gbl>
Dear _R
...... &...??
so what 's the big deal?
Love & Freshlywebserved, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
[...]
>The downside is that if people google my name they find me on a website of
>founders of Emissaries-of-Divine Light, and jump to obvious conclusions
>about my being in an organization which, as far as I know, moved on when
>its founders did. _R
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
SearchYour way, your world, right now!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From ae.dropper at juno.com Sun Oct 8 03:23:07 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 04:22:35 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <20061007.212344.3964.177.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Pat - Beautiful? Why "beauitful"? --- Zoe
I'm sure I don't know. --- Katherine Hepburn
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061007/bcb8eae3/attachment.html
From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Oct 8 10:56:12 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Oct 9 12:15:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <20061008.021238.1336.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
You're right about that pythagoras:
http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference - that
sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than that...
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
Franis
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 10:31:44 -0700 (PDT) Karilen Mays <tubakari@yahoo.com>
writes:
> the music of the spheres makes me think of pythagoras for some reason.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com>
> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2006 4:30:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>
>
> That phrase "the music of the spheres" popped into my head. Do you
> know anything about this phrase? Because what we've been talking
> about is a scientific take on that idea - if you allow that a sphere
> is just a 3-D circle....
> But is amazing that the sine wave is generated out of a circle. A
> circle of what?
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 8 11:50:59 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 12:48:08 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
Message-ID: <4fa.75992cd.325a2403@aol.com>
Hi Franis,
Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the
origin of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
"Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how many
are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that
taught, not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of the
heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of plucked
strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all but
vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that wisdom, and
adding to it through information and understanding obtained from modern science."
So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the
relationship between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
"Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic harmony. It was
creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in order. Time
and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance, the greatest
being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the sun. The sun
courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their different
measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
According to the music of the spheres.
- Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms. It
is the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of death, from the
beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are enveloped by
sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal breath of
creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which life and
dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
You're right about that pythagoras:
http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference - that
sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than that...
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
**********************
Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
Incredibows in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
there's free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for your
complete piece of mind. Visit _http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk_
(http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/) and you'll find out why our customers love us!
Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
celtic band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK, Ireland,
Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at
_http://www.celtmusic.co.uk_ (http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/)
Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you owe
it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children will
get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a lifetime of
music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at _http://www.musicgarden.co.uk_
(http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/)
NEW!
What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For organisational
consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
_http://www.yourmusic.biz_ (http://www.yourmusic.biz/) - building on 24 years of successful
organisational learning!
COMING SOON
Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop. Fabulous frogs,
delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
_http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk_ (http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/f69a16f3/attachment.html
From donlay at gte.net Sun Oct 8 13:03:36 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Oct 9 14:01:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
References: <20061007.212344.3964.177.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c6eac9$70ab7a10$261c153f@DL01>
Pat - Beautiful? Why "beauitful"? --- Zoe
I'm sure I don't know. --- Katherine Hepburn
Does it really matter? -- Horhay Bush III
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/1b60c6d7/attachment.html
From donlay at gte.net Sun Oct 8 13:25:44 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Oct 9 14:22:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
References: <c25.6352209.32593b38@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003a01c6eacc$818123f0$261c153f@DL01>
I think Bohm once said that what is there is "what we notice" at any given time against a background of inifinitely qualities. I'm intersted in the quality too of some of the discussions - where "bits" of emails, even perhaps the odd word, can spark new trains of thought. Is that what you mean by beautiful dialoguing?* Because sometimes it does seem a beautiful process. * emphasis added
So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the relationship between sinewave and circle?
"Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance ..."
What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms. It is the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of death, from the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are enveloped by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal breath of creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which life and dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis. -- Mark
Pat, Is that what you mean by beautiful dialoguing? -- Al Einstein
http://home1.gte.net/donlay
----- Original Message -----
From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 1:17 PM
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] away days
Pat - thank you! It's all starting to make sense to me! I still, for some reason, think of ecology, of the way that connections exist which we can't see / appreciate / fathom. There's a famous example in "the ecology of commerce" which looks at decline in frog populations. Apparently no-one noticed it as a connected pattern until people got talking casually in a break at a wildlife conference. So perhaps it's through connecting with each other (as we do on this list) that we start to see how some of the parts connect, although at the same time we'll probably never see all the connections.
I think Bohm once said that what is there is "what we notice" at any given time against a background of inifinitely qualities. I'm intersted in the quality too of some of the discussions - where "bits" of emails, even perhaps the odd word, can spark new trains of thought. Is that what you mean by beautiful dialoguing? Because sometimes it does seem a beautiful process.
"The whole is in each part." The "whole" "explicates" itself as
"parts." There is "participation" between "part" and "whole."
This is dynamic, ongoing, participation. Where this participation
between part and whole is realized or appreciated, creative
relationship [oneness] between part and part appears.
Seeing this in relationship to physics really
gives a sense of confirmation to the intuition.
The double slit experiment is a good place to
start. It appears that that electron aimed at
the two slits was not simply the "particle" it
was thought to be. Appearances deceive. They are
"tips of iceburgs" sans iceburgs, surrounding land, etc..
Much is hidden from the five senses [as we know,
but it is amazing to what degree].
pat
**********************
Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible Incredibows in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment, there's free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for your complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk and you'll find out why our customers love us!
Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece celtic band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK, Ireland, Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at http://www.celtmusic.co.uk
Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you owe it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children will get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a lifetime of music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
NEW!
What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see http://www.yourmusic.biz - building on 24 years of successful organisational learning!
COMING SOON
Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop. Fabulous frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/b89f41a0/attachment.html
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 8 14:30:43 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 15:27:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
In-Reply-To: <20061009100004.8E12E23A71@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF50765F0E.473F873A-ON85257201.0044A39D-85257201.0044BB30@dialogos.com>
Rodger __The hard wiring is what is focused on in the BBC documentary I
saw, and am searching for.
It shows how the different speeds that boys and girls mature
-mentally/emotionally- are not taken into account in primary school
curriculums, which are the same for boys & girls even though the boys
ability to process data is approximately 2 years behind the girls.
Aside from the different speeds in mental growth, girls and boys use
different amounts of left-brain and right-brain during those early years of
processing information.
I think one outcome of this oversight is that a significant majority of the
Attention Deficit Disorder problem among school children is happening with
the boys.
So in this case, I would suggest that this aspect of ADD is definitely
culturally inculcated. _R
.
.
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
What the study doesn?t address is whether these differences are ?hard
wired?
at birth, or culturally inculcated.
.
.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/24982ada/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 14:38:52 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 15:36:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <20061007.212344.3964.177.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2065EAECC29D24E2FB4035A8110@phx.gbl>
So why
're you
Trying
>Pat - Beautiful? Why "beauitful"? --- Donf
>
>I'm sure I don't know. - Pat
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 14:39:19 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 15:36:28 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Peterkris
In-Reply-To: <C14DFBAD.367F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F165E3F9BE1E588D13EAD6FA8110@phx.gbl>
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Peterkris
>Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
>
>Peterkris, you arenıt a musician at all! Why would you pretend to be who
>you arenıt? You must realize that itıs quite frustrating and exasperating
>to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a person.
>Furthermore, it doesnıt ring true. And DONıT ask whatıs true. We donıt
>really have different definitions, and I donıt need to be prodded to
>³think².
>
>So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are playing a
>game, know the rules, and consent to it. Thatıs one of the ways you keep
>balanced when moving between realities.
>How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and your wife are
>undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for friendship could
>be
>there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And that is not
>the stuff friendship can be built on.
>
>I am sending this to your private address because it is absolutely none of
>the groupıs business.
>
>Disappointfrustrated Gutennacht!
>
> k
>
>I read yours and your wifeıs dialog with Don F. Interesting. Fills in
>some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one canıt open your
>movies on the web?
>
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 8 14:46:36 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 15:43:47 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <20061009100004.8E12E23A71@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF792D52DA.50594089-ON85257201.0044E489-85257201.00462F73@dialogos.com>
Rodger __hi Don L, you seem focused on an ongoing argument -possibly with
don f- about a resistance to inquiring into Bohm-Parmenides etc.
Why not open the topic and begin to share the revalations that you have in
this area instead?
If the answer is because some people are behaving in ways that are not
suitable to your standard or needs, re: safe setting, then I doubt there is
a way to verify, at least at this time, that everyone is cooperating with
your expectations of safety,thus feel at liberty to open sacred or personal
topics.
We each faced this same challenge when we decided to explore bohm-dialogue
on the internet. _R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
Rodger, what logic (logos) is it that says we should ignore Bohm's having
cited and been influenced by Parmenides and Heraclitus as well as
influenced by the particular interpretation he read?
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/9d738cf3/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 14:48:14 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 15:45:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
In-Reply-To: <OF1835EB3E.2E132049-ON85257200.0045B432-85257200.004A2EC3@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F35345432E2F5383BFE9F95A8110@phx.gbl>
Dear Chatclubbers (this one especially for Donf):
Even when we think we are making rational choices and decisions, this may be
illusory too. The intriguing possibility is that we simply do not have
access to all of the unconscious information on which we base our decisions,
so we create fictions upon which to rationalise them, says Kringelbach. That
may well be a good thing, he adds. If we were aware of how we made every
choice we would never get anything done - we cannot hold that much
information in our consciousness. Wilson backs up this idea with some
numbers: he says our senses may take in more than 11 million pieces of
information each second, whereas even the most liberal estimates suggest
that we are conscious of just 40 of these.
Nevertheless it is an unsettling thought that perhaps all our conscious mind
ever does is dream up stories in an attempt to make sense of our world. "The
possibility is left open that in the most extreme case all of the people may
confabulate all of the time," says Hall.
In the mean'time: hahahappy "dialoguing" .... for 'truth'.... and to 'get'
thought/tas
Kb ot
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Oct 8 15:06:19 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 16:03:29 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
In-Reply-To: <20061009100004.8E12E23A71@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFEC5ED6B4.B277A4CD-ON85257201.0046EA65-85257201.0047FD97@dialogos.com>
Rodger __ Pat, thats very funny, I agree, -wrong- is similar to a lie, or
not unlike -unique-.
Something is either unique, or not. There is no gradient of unique. But
people like to find gradients to -wrong- & -lies-.
Whats funny is the plain truth of how our assumptions about other people
are usually wrong -- and the gradient of how wrong, is imagined to appease
our self image._R
.
.
From: "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
.
Rodger, I figure you can't get any worse than 'totally wrong' which our
assumptions about each other amount to anyway.
pat
---
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/1782ca66/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:04:59 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:02:09 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Peterkris
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F165E3F9BE1E588D13EAD6FA8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14E8BDB.368D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Pushing buttons again, Peter? k
On 10/8/06 8:39 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Peterkris
>> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
>>
>> Peterkris, you aren?t a musician at all! Why would you pretend to be who
>> you aren?t? You must realize that it?s quite frustrating and exasperating
>> to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a person.
>> Furthermore, it doesn?t ring true. And DON?T ask what?s true. We don?t
>> really have different definitions, and I don?t need to be prodded to
>> ?think?.
>>
>> So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are playing a
>> game, know the rules, and consent to it. That?s one of the ways you keep
>> balanced when moving between realities.
>> How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and your wife are
>> undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for friendship could
>> be
>> there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And that is not
>> the stuff friendship can be built on.
>>
>> I am sending this to your private address because it is absolutely none of
>> the group?s business.
>>
>> Disappointfrustrated ? Gutennacht!
>>
>> k
>>
>> I read yours and your wife?s dialog with Don F. Interesting. Fills in
>> some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one can?t open your
>> movies on the web?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.w
> indowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:10:20 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:07:29 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
In-Reply-To: <OF50765F0E.473F873A-ON85257201.0044A39D-85257201.0044BB30@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C14E8D1C.368F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Hi Rodger ? About a year ago I attended a several day series of workshops at
Harvard on this topic. One very outstanding point made was that not only
are physical movement and emotion part of cognitive processing, but that
many different parts of the brain are involved in any task. They were very
careful to debunk the idea of right brain ? left brain focus. k
On 10/8/06 8:30 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger __The hard wiring is what is focused on in the BBC documentary I saw,
> and am searching for.
>
> It shows how the different speeds that boys and girls mature
> -mentally/emotionally- are not taken into account in primary school
> curriculums, which are the same for boys & girls even though the boys ability
> to process data is approximately 2 years behind the girls.
>
> Aside from the different speeds in mental growth, girls and boys use different
> amounts of left-brain and right-brain during those early years of processing
> information.
>
> I think one outcome of this oversight is that a significant majority of the
> Attention Deficit Disorder problem among school children is happening with the
> boys.
>
> So in this case, I would suggest that this aspect of ADD is definitely
> culturally inculcated. _R
> .
> .
> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: gender brain difference
> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> .
> What the study doesn?t address is whether these differences are ?hard wired?
> at birth, or culturally inculcated.
> .
> .
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/44fb783b/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:19:14 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:16:24 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <4fa.75992cd.325a2403@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14E8F32.3692%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Beautiful thoughts, beautiful words. Again, thank you. k
On 10/8/06 5:50 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Franis,
>
> Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the origin
> of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
>
> "Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how many
> are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that taught,
> not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
>
> Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of the
> heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of plucked
> strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all but
> vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that wisdom, and
> adding to it through information and understanding obtained from modern
> science."
>
> So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the relationship
> between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
> understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
>
> "Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
> comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic harmony.
> It was creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in order.
> Time and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance, the
> greatest being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the sun.
> The sun courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their
> different measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
>>
>>>
>>> Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
>>> According to the music of the spheres.
> - Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
>
> I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
>
> What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms. It is
> the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
> carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of death, from
> the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are enveloped
> by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal breath of
> creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which life and
> dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
>
> Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
>> You're right about that pythagoras:
>> http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
>>
>> I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference - that
>> sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
>> factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than that...
>> http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
>
> **********************
>
> Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible Incredibows
> in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment, there's
> free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for your
> complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk
> <http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/> and you'll find out why our customers love
> us!
>
> Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece celtic
> band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK, Ireland,
> Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at
> http://www.celtmusic.co.uk <http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/>
>
> Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you owe
> it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children will
> get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a lifetime of
> music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
> <http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/>
>
> NEW!
>
> What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
> leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For
> organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
> http://www.yourmusic.biz <http://www.yourmusic.biz/> - building on 24 years
> of successful organisational learning!
>
> COMING SOON
>
> Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
> fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop. Fabulous
> frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
> http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk <http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/52befa8f/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:24:00 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:21:09 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <OF792D52DA.50594089-ON85257201.0044E489-85257201.00462F73@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C14E9050.3694%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Paracelsus is in ?Alchemy & Mysticism?, but not Parmenides. I don?t
remember the others in question, but perhaps there is some subconscious
feeling that these early thinkers weren?t
?scientific?, therefore we tend to discount them, even fear them. I have
seen that happen in other areas of endeavor. k
On 10/8/06 8:46 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger __hi Don L, you seem focused on an ongoing argument -possibly with don
> f- about a resistance to inquiring into Bohm-Parmenides etc.
> Why not open the topic and begin to share the revalations that you have in
> this area instead?
>
> If the answer is because some people are behaving in ways that are not
> suitable to your standard or needs, re: safe setting, then I doubt there is a
> way to verify, at least at this time, that everyone is cooperating with your
> expectations of safety,thus feel at liberty to open sacred or personal topics.
>
> We each faced this same challenge when we decided to explore bohm-dialogue on
> the internet. _R
> .
> .
> From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> .
> Rodger, what logic (logos) is it that says we should ignore Bohm's having
> cited and been influenced by Parmenides and Heraclitus as well as
> influenced by the particular interpretation he read?
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/ecd07e49/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:36:28 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:33:38 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F35345432E2F5383BFE9F95A8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14E933C.3697%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Wow, Peter. How nice to be able to read this so easily. Did you write it?
And how great you gave credit where it is due.
I think inventing a language is a very creative act, but three differences I
have noted between a language like Navajo and yours is that (1) there is
shared meaning over countless years and generations (2) it is constructed in
harmony with their world view (3) unlike Romance languages, there are no
clues to shared or derived words among them. There are instances of twins,
even friends inventing their own languages, but even there, there was shared
meaning. Yours was a variation on English, frequently dissonant in its
spelling and grammar, thereby requiring a great deal of patience and respect
for your right to express yourself to even bother to try to access the
meaning. If you ever turn all that creativity of yours towards revising
what you have done, you might invent something beautiful.
The image of the monad was stunning.
Hope you fix the web page so I can access your movies.
Hozhoon - mayyouwalkinharmoniousrelationshiptoallyouarerelatedto, Peter. k
On 10/8/06 8:48 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Chatclubbers (this one especially for Donf):
>
>
> Even when we think we are making rational choices and decisions, this may be
> illusory too. The intriguing possibility is that we simply do not have
> access to all of the unconscious information on which we base our decisions,
> so we create fictions upon which to rationalise them, says Kringelbach. That
> may well be a good thing, he adds. If we were aware of how we made every
> choice we would never get anything done - we cannot hold that much
> information in our consciousness. Wilson backs up this idea with some
> numbers: he says our senses may take in more than 11 million pieces of
> information each second, whereas even the most liberal estimates suggest
> that we are conscious of just 40 of these.
>
> Nevertheless it is an unsettling thought that perhaps all our conscious mind
> ever does is dream up stories in an attempt to make sense of our world. "The
> possibility is left open that in the most extreme case all of the people may
> confabulate all of the time," says Hall.
>
>
>
> In the mean'time: hahahappy "dialoguing" .... for 'truth'.... and to 'get'
> thought/tas
>
>
>
>
> Kb ot
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free 90-day trial!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.w
> indowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 17:47:48 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:44:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <C14E8F32.3692%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F12A3D5AAE126369CBEA68CA8110@phx.gbl>
Dear "k"
When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
Dido you have any 'idea'
Or are you just uttering (uddering?) those thinkgs
Out
Loud
Love & Questionmarking, Kris
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:19:14 -0400
>
>Beautiful thoughts, beautiful words. Again, thank you. k
>
>
>On 10/8/06 5:50 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Franis,
> >
> > Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the
>origin
> > of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
> >
> > "Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how
>many
> > are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that
>taught,
> > not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
> >
> > Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of
>the
> > heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of
>plucked
> > strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all but
> > vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that
>wisdom, and
> > adding to it through information and understanding obtained from modern
> > science."
> >
> > So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the
>relationship
> > between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
> > understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
> >
> > "Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
> > comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic
>harmony.
> > It was creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in
>order.
> > Time and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance,
>the
> > greatest being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the
>sun.
> > The sun courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their
> > different measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
> >>> According to the music of the spheres.
> > - Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
> >
> > I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
> >
> > What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms.
>It is
> > the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
> > carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of death,
>from
> > the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are
>enveloped
> > by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal
>breath of
> > creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which life
>and
> > dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
> >
> > Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
> >> You're right about that pythagoras:
> >> http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
> >>
> >> I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference -
>that
> >> sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
> >> factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than that...
> >> http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
> >
> > **********************
> >
> > Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
>Incredibows
> > in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
>there's
> > free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for
>your
> > complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk
> > <http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/> and you'll find out why our
>customers love
> > us!
> >
> > Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
>celtic
> > band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK,
>Ireland,
> > Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at
> > http://www.celtmusic.co.uk <http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/>
> >
> > Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you
>owe
> > it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children
>will
> > get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a
>lifetime of
> > music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at
>http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
> > <http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/>
> >
> > NEW!
> >
> > What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
> > leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For
> > organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
> > http://www.yourmusic.biz <http://www.yourmusic.biz/> - building on 24
>years
> > of successful organisational learning!
> >
> > COMING SOON
> >
> > Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
> > fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop.
>Fabulous
> > frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
> > http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
><http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:49:13 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:46:23 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Webpage
In-Reply-To: <OFEC5ED6B4.B277A4CD-ON85257201.0046EA65-85257201.0047FD97@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C14E9639.3699%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
That?s quite an insight, and something to keep in mind, hopefully to correct
as life goes on. I?m not sure I?d know how to start, but it?s valuable. k
On 10/8/06 9:06 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Whats funny is the plain truth of how our assumptions about other people are
> usually wrong -- and the gradient of how wrong, is imagined to appease our
> self image._R
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/9590130e/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 17:56:57 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:54:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] but tons
In-Reply-To: <C14E8BDB.368D%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F14B41686F0C6707DD7FE49A8110@phx.gbl>
Dear "k"
Feel like going in to that "button" thinkg
That might be real 'fun'
Tell
Show
Us those button you have in mind/matter
Merci!
Love & Zippering, Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Pushing buttons again, Peter? k
>
>
>On 10/8/06 8:39 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Peterkris
> >> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
> >>
> >> Peterkris, you arenıt a musician at all! Why would you pretend to be
>who
> >> you arenıt? You must realize that itıs quite frustrating and
>exasperating
> >> to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a person.
> >> Furthermore, it doesnıt ring true. And DONıT ask whatıs true. We
>donıt
> >> really have different definitions, and I donıt need to be prodded to
> >> ³think².
> >>
> >> So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are playing
>a
> >> game, know the rules, and consent to it. Thatıs one of the ways you
>keep
> >> balanced when moving between realities.
> >> How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and your wife
>are
> >> undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for friendship
>could
> >> be
> >> there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And that is
>not
> >> the stuff friendship can be built on.
> >>
> >> I am sending this to your private address because it is absolutely none
>of
> >> the groupıs business.
> >>
> >> Disappointfrustrated Gutennacht!
> >>
> >> k
> >>
> >> I read yours and your wifeıs dialog with Don F. Interesting. Fills
>in
> >> some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one canıt open your
> >> movies on the web?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day
>trial!
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.w
> > indowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 17:58:49 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:56:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F12A3D5AAE126369CBEA68CA8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14E9879.369C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Dear Peter,
Is it possible for you to utter a thought without an insult lurking beneath
your words?
It's a beautiful day here in NYC, isn't it? Or do you prefer rain,
dampness, grey overcast, and the pain that inflicts on arthritis sufferers?
I send you mental images of that good cup of morning cappuccino.
Loveandstillangrywithyou - k
On 10/8/06 11:47 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear "k"
>
> When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
>
> What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
>
> Dido you have any 'idea'
>
> Or are you just uttering (uddering?) those thinkgs
>
> Out
>
> Loud
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Questionmarking, Kris
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:19:14 -0400
>>
>> Beautiful thoughts, beautiful words. Again, thank you. k
>>
>>
>> On 10/8/06 5:50 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Franis,
>>>
>>> Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the
>> origin
>>> of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
>>>
>>> "Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how
>> many
>>> are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that
>> taught,
>>> not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
>>>
>>> Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of
>> the
>>> heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of
>> plucked
>>> strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all but
>>> vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that
>> wisdom, and
>>> adding to it through information and understanding obtained from modern
>>> science."
>>>
>>> So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the
>> relationship
>>> between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
>>> understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
>>>
>>> "Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
>>> comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic
>> harmony.
>>> It was creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in
>> order.
>>> Time and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance,
>> the
>>> greatest being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the
>> sun.
>>> The sun courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their
>>> different measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
>>>>> According to the music of the spheres.
>>> - Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
>>>
>>> I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
>>>
>>> What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms.
>> It is
>>> the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
>>> carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of death,
>> from
>>> the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are
>> enveloped
>>> by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal
>> breath of
>>> creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which life
>> and
>>> dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
>>>
>>> Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
>>>> You're right about that pythagoras:
>>>> http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
>>>>
>>>> I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference -
>> that
>>>> sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
>>>> factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than that...
>>>> http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
>>>
>>> **********************
>>>
>>> Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
>> Incredibows
>>> in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
>> there's
>>> free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for
>> your
>>> complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk
>>> <http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/> and you'll find out why our
>> customers love
>>> us!
>>>
>>> Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
>> celtic
>>> band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK,
>> Ireland,
>>> Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all at
>>> http://www.celtmusic.co.uk <http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/>
>>>
>>> Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then you
>> owe
>>> it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children
>> will
>>> get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a
>> lifetime of
>>> music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at
>> http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
>>> <http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/>
>>>
>>> NEW!
>>>
>>> What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
>>> leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For
>>> organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
>>> http://www.yourmusic.biz <http://www.yourmusic.biz/> - building on 24
>> years
>>> of successful organisational learning!
>>>
>>> COMING SOON
>>>
>>> Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
>>> fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop.
>> Fabulous
>>> frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
>>> http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
>> <http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 18:00:09 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:57:24 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
In-Reply-To: <BAY0-MC8-F18yLAPDVX0008e96e@bay0-mc8-f18.bay0.hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F22E05D5A9FAE29ECF51531A8110@phx.gbl>
aha! .... a humahine after all ;;--][
lovely!
Kbot
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: tangykatt@earthlink.net Reply-To: nobody@earthlink.net
>To: "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
>Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:54:27 -0400 (EDT)
>
>I apologize for this automatic reply to your email.
>
>To control spam, I now allow incoming messages only from senders I
>have approved beforehand.
>
>If you would like to be added to my list of approved senders, please
>fill out the short request form (see link below). Once I approve you,
>I will receive your original message in my inbox. You do not need to
>resend your message. I apologize for this one-time inconvenience.
>
>Click the link below to fill out the request:
>
>https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=tangykatt@earthlink.net&id=1gwAYX2VA3Nl36s1
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 8 18:00:42 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 18:57:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <c17.67d15a1.325a7aaa@aol.com>
Is that because there was a point where science and art split, and the
language of measurement and commerce was seen as more "useful" than the language
of emotion and affect?
And after all those centuries of physical laws and measurement, we have
descovered that the more closely we look(quantum mechanics) the more difficult
things become to measure. Quantum mechanics is full of strange and charming
language as we start to have to describe what we assume is our physical world in
quite abstract, poetic terms again.
Paracelsus is in ?Alchemy & Mysticism?, but not Parmenides. I don?t
remember the others in question, but perhaps there is some subconscious feeling
that these early thinkers weren?t
?scientific?, therefore we tend to discount them, even fear them. I have
seen that happen in other areas of endeavor. k
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/29e646d5/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 18:03:09 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:00:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <C14E9879.369C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F9E11416B7F6E9D267F3D8A8110@phx.gbl>
> > When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
> >
> > What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
Dear Peter, how about addressing the content ("beautiful") rather than the
wrapper ("insult")
Love & Allweatherwoman Kathryn
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:58:49 -0400
>
>Dear Peter,
>
>Is it possible for you to utter a thought without an insult lurking beneath
>your words?
>
>It's a beautiful day here in NYC, isn't it? Or do you prefer rain,
>dampness, grey overcast, and the pain that inflicts on arthritis sufferers?
>
>I send you mental images of that good cup of morning cappuccino.
>
>Loveandstillangrywithyou - k
>
>
>On 10/8/06 11:47 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > Dear "k"
> >
> > When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
> >
> > What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
> >
> > Dido you have any 'idea'
> >
> > Or are you just uttering (uddering?) those thinkgs
> >
> > Out
> >
> > Loud
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Questionmarking, Kris
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
> >> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:19:14 -0400
> >>
> >> Beautiful thoughts, beautiful words. Again, thank you. k
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/8/06 5:50 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Franis,
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the
> >> origin
> >>> of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
> >>>
> >>> "Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how
> >> many
> >>> are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that
> >> taught,
> >>> not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
> >>>
> >>> Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of
> >> the
> >>> heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of
> >> plucked
> >>> strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all
>but
> >>> vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that
> >> wisdom, and
> >>> adding to it through information and understanding obtained from
>modern
> >>> science."
> >>>
> >>> So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the
> >> relationship
> >>> between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
> >>> understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
> >>>
> >>> "Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
> >>> comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic
> >> harmony.
> >>> It was creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in
> >> order.
> >>> Time and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance,
> >> the
> >>> greatest being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the
> >> sun.
> >>> The sun courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their
> >>> different measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
> >>>>> According to the music of the spheres.
> >>> - Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
> >>>
> >>> I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
> >>>
> >>> What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms.
> >> It is
> >>> the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
> >>> carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of
>death,
> >> from
> >>> the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are
> >> enveloped
> >>> by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal
> >> breath of
> >>> creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which
>life
> >> and
> >>> dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
> >>>
> >>> Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
> >>>> You're right about that pythagoras:
> >>>> http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
> >>>>
> >>>> I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference -
> >> that
> >>>> sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
> >>>> factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than
>that...
> >>>> http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
> >>>
> >>> **********************
> >>>
> >>> Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
> >> Incredibows
> >>> in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
> >> there's
> >>> free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for
> >> your
> >>> complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk
> >>> <http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/> and you'll find out why our
> >> customers love
> >>> us!
> >>>
> >>> Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
> >> celtic
> >>> band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK,
> >> Ireland,
> >>> Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all
>at
> >>> http://www.celtmusic.co.uk <http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/>
> >>>
> >>> Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then
>you
> >> owe
> >>> it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children
> >> will
> >>> get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a
> >> lifetime of
> >>> music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at
> >> http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
> >>> <http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/>
> >>>
> >>> NEW!
> >>>
> >>> What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
> >>> leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For
> >>> organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
> >>> http://www.yourmusic.biz <http://www.yourmusic.biz/> - building on 24
> >> years
> >>> of successful organisational learning!
> >>>
> >>> COMING SOON
> >>>
> >>> Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
> >>> fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop.
> >> Fabulous
> >>> frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
> >>> http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
> >> <http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> > et.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 18:10:29 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:07:44 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <c17.67d15a1.325a7aaa@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14E9B35.36A2%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Good Morning, Mark -
In ?On Creativity?, Bohm has a lot to say about the interaction of science
and art. He didn?t see them as separate things, but as complimentary. And
so did I, even before reading Bohm. So possibly the differences and
connections between the two could be rethought to everybody?s advantage. k
On 10/8/06 12:00 PM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Is that because there was a point where science and art split, and the
> language of measurement and commerce was seen as more "useful" than the
> language of emotion and affect?
>
> And after all those centuries of physical laws and measurement, we have
> descovered that the more closely we look(quantum mechanics) the more difficult
> things become to measure. Quantum mechanics is full of strange and charming
> language as we start to have to describe what we assume is our physical world
> in quite abstract, poetic terms again.
>> Paracelsus is in ?Alchemy & Mysticism?, but not Parmenides. I don?t
>> remember the others in question, but perhaps there is some subconscious
>> feeling that these early thinkers weren?t
>> ?scientific?, therefore we tend to discount them, even fear them. I have
>> seen that happen in other areas of endeavor. k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/b1265f76/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 18:14:06 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:11:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F9E11416B7F6E9D267F3D8A8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14E9C0E.36A4%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
ok - but when my heightened emotion will allow me to think that way. By the
way, your rephrasing is "beautiful".
I still don't consider you trustworthy. Maybe you can rephrase that one,
too. k
On 10/8/06 12:03 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
>>>
>>> What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
>
>
>
> Dear Peter, how about addressing the content ("beautiful") rather than the
> wrapper ("insult")
>
>
>
>
> Love & Allweatherwoman Kathryn
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:58:49 -0400
>>
>> Dear Peter,
>>
>> Is it possible for you to utter a thought without an insult lurking beneath
>> your words?
>>
>> It's a beautiful day here in NYC, isn't it? Or do you prefer rain,
>> dampness, grey overcast, and the pain that inflicts on arthritis sufferers?
>>
>> I send you mental images of that good cup of morning cappuccino.
>>
>> Loveandstillangrywithyou - k
>>
>>
>> On 10/8/06 11:47 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear "k"
>>>
>>> When 'is' some thinkg "beautiful"
>>>
>>> What 'makes' some thinkg "beautiful"
>>>
>>> Dido you have any 'idea'
>>>
>>> Or are you just uttering (uddering?) those thinkgs
>>>
>>> Out
>>>
>>> Loud
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Questionmarking, Kris
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] impulse response and "feeling"
>>>> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:19:14 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Beautiful thoughts, beautiful words. Again, thank you. k
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/8/06 5:50 AM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Franis,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the links - very interesting stuff. I had no idea of the
>>>> origin
>>>>> of this phrase. The site you quoted has the following description:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Many of us know of Pythagoras as the father of geometry. However, how
>>>> many
>>>>> are aware that in the 6th century B.C. in Greece, he had a school that
>>>> taught,
>>>>> not only the magic of numbers, but the healing powers of music.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pythagoras taught of the Music of the Spheres and how the movement of
>>>> the
>>>>> heavenly bodies could be perceived and reflected in the intervals of
>>>> plucked
>>>>> strings. Today, in the West, much of this ancient knowledge has all
>> but
>>>>> vanished. However, we are now in the process of rediscovering that
>>>> wisdom, and
>>>>> adding to it through information and understanding obtained from
>> modern
>>>>> science."
>>>>>
>>>>> So I wonder if Pythagoras knew what a sine wave was or about the
>>>> relationship
>>>>> between sinewave and circle? And in your other quote, the Elizabethans
>>>>> understood the connection between society and the greater universe:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Antonius maintaining that as the universe itself is one great dance
>>>>> comprising many lesser dances we should ourselves join in the cosmic
>>>> harmony.
>>>>> It was creative love that first persuaded the warring atoms to move in
>>>> order.
>>>>> Time and all its division are a dance. The stars have their own dance,
>>>> the
>>>>> greatest being that of the Great Year, which lasts 25,800 years of the
>>>> sun.
>>>>> The sun courts the earth in a dance. The different elements have their
>>>>> different measures. The various happenings on the earth itself
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forward and backward rapt and whirled are
>>>>>>> According to the music of the spheres.
>>>>> - Sir John Davies' "Orchestra, or A Poem of Dancing" from 1596"
>>>>>
>>>>> I also have a quote, from "The Mozart Effect", by Don Campbell:
>>>>>
>>>>> What is music? It is the sounds of earth and sky, of tides and storms.
>>>> It is
>>>>> the echo of a train in the distance, the pounding reverberations of a
>>>>> carpenter at work. From the first cry of life to the last sigh of
>> death,
>>>> from
>>>>> the beating of our hearts to the soaring of our imaginations, we are
>>>> enveloped
>>>>> by sound and vibration every moment of our lives. It is the primal
>>>> breath of
>>>>> creation itself, the speech of angels and atoms, the stuff of which
>> life
>>>> and
>>>>> dreams, souls and stars, are ultimately fashioned. (Campbell, 1997)
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice to have a bit of historical context. Thanks, Franis.
>>>>>> You're right about that pythagoras:
>>>>>> http://peyote.com/jonstef/spheres.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought "music of the spheres" came from a planetary reference -
>>>> that
>>>>>> sound was coming from the dance of planets, (in spite of being in a
>>>>>> factual vaccuum!) But the reference is quite a bit older than
>> that...
>>>>>> http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/~hayward/van/glossary/spheres.html
>>>>>
>>>>> **********************
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you love the violin? Browse our fabulous fiddles and incredible
>>>> Incredibows
>>>>> in our online music shop. Everything is sent immediately on payment,
>>>> there's
>>>>> free postage to the UK and EU, and a 60-day no-quibble guarantee for
>>>> your
>>>>> complete piece of mind. Visit http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk
>>>>> <http://www.danceofdelight.co.uk/> and you'll find out why our
>>>> customers love
>>>>> us!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you love Celtic music? Then you can't miss Slainte, the seven-piece
>>>> celtic
>>>>> band from Gloucestershire, with a passionate following in the UK,
>>>> Ireland,
>>>>> Italy and the USA. Free studio videos and mp3 downloads. Meet us all
>> at
>>>>> http://www.celtmusic.co.uk <http://www.celtmusic.co.uk/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your children deserve the best. If you live in Gloucestershire, then
>> you
>>>> owe
>>>>> it to yourself to come to a MusicGarden session. You and your children
>>>> will
>>>>> get to play real musical instruments and lay the foundation for a
>>>> lifetime of
>>>>> music. Seriously Fun Music Sessions - more at
>>>> http://www.musicgarden.co.uk
>>>>> <http://www.musicgarden.co.uk/>
>>>>>
>>>>> NEW!
>>>>>
>>>>> What can the ebb and flow of music teach us about organisations? About
>>>>> leadership and strategy? About sustainability and creativity? For
>>>>> organisational consulting and group work with a sound difference, see
>>>>> http://www.yourmusic.biz <http://www.yourmusic.biz/> - building on 24
>>>> years
>>>>> of successful organisational learning!
>>>>>
>>>>> COMING SOON
>>>>>
>>>>> Exciting musical instruments from around the world - fairly-traded and
>>>>> fairly-priced in a way that helps communities sustain and develop.
>>>> Fabulous
>>>>> frogs, delightful djembes and more! Available August 2006 at
>>>>> http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk
>>>> <http://www.fairtrademusicshop.co.uk/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
>>> Spaces
>>>
>>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.>>
g
>>> et.live.com/spaces/features
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 8 18:22:30 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:19:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <bd1.5063146.325a7fc6@aol.com>
Hi Kathy,
Is that also part of your Native American side (hope I've got that right) -
seeing things as complimentary? There's a nice phrase I heard someone use
once, about "expression". Perhaps science and art are just two expressions
(qualities?) of the same thing?
the interaction of science and art. He didn?t see them as separate things,
but as complimentary. And so did I, even before reading Bohm.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/9e2b797b/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 18:28:52 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:26:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F22E05D5A9FAE29ECF51531A8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14E9F84.36A7%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I just went to my "Suspect" box. You didn't ask to be added, or it would
have been done. So you had other choices. Why didn't you take one of them?
I don't think our personal differences belong on the web, and common
courtesy should tell you that request should have been respected.
What is a "humahine"? I suspect your root is "human". What's the rest of
it? "Machine"? And if so, do you think that people are human only when
they're angry????????? "Lovely" - is that an indication of your concept of
beauty? And what is all this ";;--][ " about? What does it mean?
Please go fix your movie website. I'd like to see them, Peter.
notallweather, k
On 10/8/06 12:00 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> aha! .... a humahine after all ;;--][
>
> lovely!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kbot
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>> From: tangykatt@earthlink.net Reply-To: nobody@earthlink.net
>> To: "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Humachine
>> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 11:54:27 -0400 (EDT)
>>
>> I apologize for this automatic reply to your email.
>>
>> To control spam, I now allow incoming messages only from senders I
>> have approved beforehand.
>>
>> If you would like to be added to my list of approved senders, please
>> fill out the short request form (see link below). Once I approve you,
>> I will receive your original message in my inbox. You do not need to
>> resend your message. I apologize for this one-time inconvenience.
>>
>> Click the link below to fill out the request:
>>
>> https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=tangykatt@earthlink.net&id=1gwA
>> YX2VA3Nl36s1
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the new Live Search today!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 18:42:00 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 19:39:10 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <bd1.5063146.325a7fc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14EA298.36AA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Certainly Native Americans see them that way, but so do many other groups,
and I have ranged far and wide. Here?s a quote from ?The Mathematical
Archetypes of Nature, Art and Science? by Michael Schneider:
?The principle of the dyad (twoness) is polarity...contrast,
difference...Polar tension is at the root of all birth and creativity...It
shows up as rhythmic oscillation between opposite poles, as close as our
beating heart and as far as quasars pulsing a the edge of the universe...To
avoid disaster, we must learn to think differently...Only by acknowledging
both poles in the pair as inseparable can we overcome relative duality and
get to their common source in the Monad. In our deepest self, we are beyond
all polarity.? There is even a quote in the margin by Alfred Korzybski on
its application to language.
I really love what Bohm said in ?On Creativity?. He also said that art
could learn from science by applying some of its methods. I?m trying to do
that as I search for the patterns, structures, and connections in music
theory, and apply them to learning to improvise. k
On 10/8/06 12:22 PM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi Kathy,
>
> Is that also part of your Native American side (hope I've got that right) -
> seeing things as complimentary? There's a nice phrase I heard someone use
> once, about "expression". Perhaps science and art are just two expressions
> (qualities?) of the same thing?
>> the interaction of science and art. He didn?t see them as separate things,
>> but as complimentary. And so did I, even before reading Bohm.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/deef5063/attachment.html
From ae.dropper at juno.com Sun Oct 8 20:10:42 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 21:10:15 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <20061008.141049.3912.1.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Rodger __I think in dialogue, when a relevant topic is met with
resistance, the person being resisted needs to continue to find ways of
clarifying the meaning of the topic.
Pat __What are the distinctions between debate and
bohm's proposed kind of dialogue, regarding the way resistance
to certain content is "met" in each?
~~
Rodger __I think in dialogue, when a relevant topic is met with
resistance, the person being resisted needs to continue to find ways of
clarifying the meaning of the topic.
I remember in earlier dialogues, with Bohm and so many scientists
mathematicians etc, there was considerable resistance to the topic that
feelings were an essntial part of inquiry.
Shared meaning of that topic required a few people to continuously raise
the topic with increasingly clear examples -- when/ how feelings were
behind the idea of being rational.
Of course, it was at times when feelings were extreme, that those clear
examples were most needed, re: HOW feelings were directing ideas about
the inquiry staying rational.
And this is not about teenage-parent-issues or anti authority reactions
etc.
At that time, to tell everyone they needed to see the -truth- about their
feelings, probably wouldnt have opened many doors for inquiry. _R
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/28468e8b/attachment.html
From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Oct 8 20:52:39 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Oct 9 21:54:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <20061008.115331.1696.1.franis_franis@juno.com>
Check out this web site, download the graphic "intervalometers" for your
favorite musical instruments...
then I'll tell you some of what this guy has done with his reverse
engineered jazz music theories that will blow your mind and make you an
easier improviser. - Franis
http://www.mrnatural.net
Im trying to do that as I search for the patterns, structures, and
connections in music theory, and apply them to learning to improvise. k
From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Oct 8 20:47:17 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Oct 9 21:54:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Peterkris
Message-ID: <20061008.115331.1696.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
That's all Peterbot seems to know how to do. He likes to see if he can
get anyone else's reaction to go off by saying whatever he thingks will
get a rise out of specific people. There is always an insult lurking
behind mostly anything he says, that's why he's learned to apologize as a
signature with the "love," salutation. He also is always pointing out
what he thingks is wrong with anyone else and how they shouldn't attach
their expectations.
If I didn't know better, I'd say Peter's age is thirteen. Franis
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:04:59 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
<tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
> Pushing buttons again, Peter? k
>
>
> On 10/8/06 8:39 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Peterkris
> >> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
> >>
> >> Peterkris, you arenıt a musician at all! Why would you pretend
> to be who
> >> you arenıt? You must realize that itıs quite frustrating and
> exasperating
> >> to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a
> person.
> >> Furthermore, it doesnıt ring true. And DONıT ask whatıs true.
> We donıt
> >> really have different definitions, and I donıt need to be prodded
> to
> >> ³think².
> >>
> >> So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are
> playing a
> >> game, know the rules, and consent to it. Thatıs one of the ways
> you keep
> >> balanced when moving between realities.
> >> How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and
> your wife are
> >> undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for
> friendship could
> >> be
> >> there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And
> that is not
> >> the stuff friendship can be built on.
> >>
> >> I am sending this to your private address because it is
> absolutely none of
> >> the groupıs business.
> >>
> >> Disappointfrustrated Gutennacht!
> >>
> >> k
> >>
> >> I read yours and your wifeıs dialog with Don F. Interesting.
> Fills in
> >> some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one canıt open
> your
> >> movies on the web?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free
> 90-day trial!
> >
>
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://
www.w
> > indowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
From ae.dropper at juno.com Sun Oct 8 21:00:35 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 22:03:40 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <20061008.150530.3912.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Contributing also is the assumption that human thought "progresses,"
that we are smarter or wiser now than earlier peoples. Bohm cautioned
about this deep assumption regarding science [and in general].
I think it was in "Wholeness." Maybe I can find it.
Nope.
pat
On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 12:00:42 EDT MarkHarmer@aol.com writes:
Is that because there was a point where science and art split, and the
language of measurement and commerce was seen as more "useful" than the
language of emotion and affect?
And after all those centuries of physical laws and measurement, we have
descovered that the more closely we look(quantum mechanics) the more
difficult things become to measure. Quantum mechanics is full of strange
and charming language as we start to have to describe what we assume is
our physical world in quite abstract, poetic terms again.
Paracelsus is in Alchemy & Mysticism, but not Parmenides. I dont
remember the others in question, but perhaps there is some subconscious
feeling that these early thinkers werent
scientific, therefore we tend to discount them, even fear them. I have
seen that happen in other areas of endeavor. k
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/e0dcecc9/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 21:17:20 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 22:14:36 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <20061008.115331.1696.1.franis_franis@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C14EC700.36B8%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
I'm going to delay that for a little while. I'm preparing for an ensemble
improv session tomorrow. But again, thanks. k
On 10/8/06 2:52 PM, "Franis Engel" <franis_franis@juno.com> wrote:
> Check out this web site, download the graphic "intervalometers" for your
> favorite musical instruments...
> then I'll tell you some of what this guy has done with his reverse
> engineered jazz music theories that will blow your mind and make you an
> easier improviser. - Franis
> http://www.mrnatural.net
>
> I?m trying to do that as I search for the patterns, structures, and
> connections in music theory, and apply them to learning to improvise. k
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 8 22:11:20 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 23:08:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <582.474233c.325ab568@aol.com>
Without stopping you doing it, how do you prepare for an improv session?
Hadn't struck me till I read it but it could seem a contradiction!
I'm going to delay that for a little while. I'm preparing for an ensemble
improv session tomorrow. But again, thanks. k
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/be70d7d7/attachment.html
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 22:35:28 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Mon Oct 9 23:33:55 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <582.474233c.325ab568@aol.com>
Message-ID: <C14ED950.36BA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
See W.A Mathieu ?Harmonic Experience?. Same way you prepare for a
composition class, except you play instead of write! k
You caught me at a breif rest & regroup point.
On 10/8/06 4:11 PM, "MarkHarmer@aol.com" <MarkHarmer@aol.com> wrote:
> Without stopping you doing it, how do you prepare for an improv session?
> Hadn't struck me till I read it but it could seem a contradiction!
>> I'm going to delay that for a little while. I'm preparing for an ensemble
>> improv session tomorrow. But again, thanks. k
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/9d4f6322/attachment.html
From MarkHarmer at aol.com Sun Oct 8 22:39:07 2006
From: MarkHarmer at aol.com (MarkHarmer@aol.com)
Date: Mon Oct 9 23:36:22 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
Message-ID: <53c.89f7ec5.325abbeb@aol.com>
Thanks - and sorry - I realise as soon as I sent it that it was probably a
silly question, or else would require a huge answer which might stop you doing
what you were doing before I interrupted you! Hope it goes well tomorrow.
See W.A Mathieu ?Harmonic Experience?. Same way you prepare for a
composition class, except you play instead of write! k
You caught me at a breif rest & regroup point.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.david-bohm.org/mailman/private/bohm_dialogue/attachments/20061008/2966cba4/attachment.html
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 22:52:49 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 23:50:01 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Peterfranis
In-Reply-To: <20061008.115331.1696.0.franis_franis@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F21DAD9F6918D4F131BA97BA8110@phx.gbl>
Dear Chatgrouper of "dialog",
Most persons remain quite incredulous when they are told that the rational
principle of causality has exploded our native belief in naïf activity as
somethinkg real, and our assumption that genuinely new fact can be created
by work done. 'Le sens de la vie qui s'indigne de taiat de discourse'
awakens in them and snaps its fingers at the 'critical' view. The present
writer has also just called the critical view an incomplete abstraction. But
its 'functional laws' and schematisms are splendidly useful, and its
negations are true oftener than is commonly supposed. We feel as if our
'will' immediately moved our members, and we ignore the brain-cells whose
activity that will must first arouse; we thinkg we cause the bell-ring, but
we only close a contact and the battery in the cellar rings the bell; we
thinkg a certain star's light is the cause of our now seeing it, but
ether-waves are the causes, and the star may have been extinguished long
ago."
We call the 'draft,' the cause of our 'cold;' but without co-operant
microbes the draft could do no harm. Mill says that causes must be
unconditional antecedents, and Venn
that they must be 'close' ones. In nature's numerous successions so many
links are hidden, that we seldom know exactly which antecedent is
unconditional or which is close. Often the cause which we name only fits
some other cause for producing the phenomenon; and thinkgs, as Mill says,
are frequently then most active when we assume them to be acted upon.
This vast amount of error in our instinctive perceptions of causal activity
encourages the conceptualist view. A step farther, and we suspect that to
suppose causal activity anywhere may be a blunder, and that only
consecutions and juxtapositions can be real. Such sweeping scepticism is,
however, quite uncalled for. Other parts of experience expose us to error,
yet we do not say that in them is no truth."
We see trains moving at stations, when they are really standing still, or
falsely we feel ourselves to be moving, when we are giddy, without such
errors leading us to deny that motion anywhere exists. It exists elsewhere;
and the problem is to place it rightly. It is the same with all other
illusions of sense.
Love & Powers, Kathryn
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>That's all Peterbot seems to know how to do. He likes to see if he can
>get anyone else's reaction to go off by saying whatever he thingks will
>get a rise out of specific people. There is always an insult lurking
>behind mostly anything he says, that's why he's learned to apologize as a
>signature with the "love," salutation. He also is always pointing out
>what he thingks is wrong with anyone else and how they shouldn't attach
>their expectations.
>If I didn't know better, I'd say Peter's age is thirteen. Franis
>
>On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:04:59 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
><tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
> > Pushing buttons again, Peter? k
> >
> >
> > On 10/8/06 8:39 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> > >> To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> > >> Subject: Peterkris
> > >> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
> > >>
> > >> Peterkris, you arenıt a musician at all! Why would you pretend
> > to be who
> > >> you arenıt? You must realize that itıs quite frustrating and
> > exasperating
> > >> to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a
> > person.
> > >> Furthermore, it doesnıt ring true. And DONıT ask whatıs true.
> > We donıt
> > >> really have different definitions, and I donıt need to be prodded
> > to
> > >> ³think².
> > >>
> > >> So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are
> > playing a
> > >> game, know the rules, and consent to it. Thatıs one of the ways
> > you keep
> > >> balanced when moving between realities.
> > >> How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and
> > your wife are
> > >> undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for
> > friendship could
> > >> be
> > >> there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And
> > that is not
> > >> the stuff friendship can be built on.
> > >>
> > >> I am sending this to your private address because it is
> > absolutely none of
> > >> the groupıs business.
> > >>
> > >> Disappointfrustrated Gutennacht!
> > >>
> > >> k
> > >>
> > >> I read yours and your wifeıs dialog with Don F. Interesting.
> > Fills in
> > >> some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one canıt open
> > your
> > >> movies on the web?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free
> > 90-day trial!
> > >
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://
>www.w
> > > indowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > info:
> > > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > > dialogue facilitator:
> > > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > > admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Sun Oct 8 22:55:08 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Mon Oct 9 23:52:23 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Logos
In-Reply-To: <53c.89f7ec5.325abbeb@aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F3B6D052745BC1B0D42E86A8110@phx.gbl>
>Thanks thanks thanks - and sorry sorry sorry - I realise as soon as I sent
>it that it was probably a
>silly question, or else would require a huge answer which might stop stop
>stop you doing
>what you were doing before I I I interrupted you! Hope it goes chat chat
>chat
Love & Lalala, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Sun Oct 8 23:07:14 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Tue Oct 10 00:04:27 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Peterfranis
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F21DAD9F6918D4F131BA97BA8110@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C14EE0C2.36BF%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Interesting, and thank you, especially for the empowerment energy - but I'm
not going to get hooked right now into reading it! Later this evening,
PeterKris!
Love & Hozhoon. k
On 10/8/06 4:52 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Chatgrouper of "dialog",
>
> Most persons remain quite incredulous when they are told that the rational
> principle of causality has exploded our native belief in na?f activity as
> somethinkg real, and our assumption that genuinely new fact can be created
> by work done. 'Le sens de la vie qui s'indigne de taiat de discourse'
> awakens in them and snaps its fingers at the 'critical' view. The present
> writer has also just called the critical view an incomplete abstraction. But
> its 'functional laws' and schematisms are splendidly useful, and its
> negations are true oftener than is commonly supposed. We feel as if our
> 'will' immediately moved our members, and we ignore the brain-cells whose
> activity that will must first arouse; we thinkg we cause the bell-ring, but
> we only close a contact and the battery in the cellar rings the bell; we
> thinkg a certain star's light is the cause of our now seeing it, but
> ether-waves are the causes, and the star may have been extinguished long
> ago."
>
> We call the 'draft,' the cause of our 'cold;' but without co-operant
> microbes the draft could do no harm. Mill says that causes must be
> unconditional antecedents, and Venn
> that they must be 'close' ones. In nature's numerous successions so many
> links are hidden, that we seldom know exactly which antecedent is
> unconditional or which is close. Often the cause which we name only fits
> some other cause for producing the phenomenon; and thinkgs, as Mill says,
> are frequently then most active when we assume them to be acted upon.
>
> This vast amount of error in our instinctive perceptions of causal activity
> encourages the conceptualist view. A step farther, and we suspect that to
> suppose causal activity anywhere may be a blunder, and that only
> consecutions and juxtapositions can be real. Such sweeping scepticism is,
> however, quite uncalled for. Other parts of experience expose us to error,
> yet we do not say that in them is no truth."
>
> We see trains moving at stations, when they are really standing still, or
> falsely we feel ourselves to be moving, when we are giddy, without such
> errors leading us to deny that motion anywhere exists. It exists elsewhere;
> and the problem is to place it rightly. It is the same with all other
> illusions of sense.
>
> Love & Powers, Kathryn
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>> That's all Peterbot seems to know how to do. He likes to see if he can
>> get anyone else's reaction to go off by saying whatever he thingks will
>> get a rise out of specific people. There is always an insult lurking
>> behind mostly anything he says, that's why he's learned to apologize as a
>> signature with the "love," salutation. He also is always pointing out
>> what he thingks is wrong with anyone else and how they shouldn't attach
>> their expectations.
>> If I didn't know better, I'd say Peter's age is thirteen. Franis
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 11:04:59 -0400 Kathryn Arizmendi
>> <tangykatt@earthlink.net> writes:
>>> Pushing buttons again, Peter? k
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/8/06 8:39 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Peterkris
>>>>> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 00:49:49 -0400
>>>>>
>>>>> Peterkris, you aren?t a musician at all! Why would you pretend
>>> to be who
>>>>> you aren?t? You must realize that it?s quite frustrating and
>>> exasperating
>>>>> to try to dialog with a kaleidoscopic hologram instead of a
>>> person.
>>>>> Furthermore, it doesn?t ring true. And DON?T ask what?s true.
>>> We don?t
>>>>> really have different definitions, and I don?t need to be prodded
>>> to
>>>>> ?think?.
>>>>>
>>>>> So come on. Games are games when all the players know they are
>>> playing a
>>>>> game, know the rules, and consent to it. That?s one of the ways
>>> you keep
>>>>> balanced when moving between realities.
>>>>> How you tango without getting kicked where it hurts. You and
>>> your wife are
>>>>> undoubtedly very nice people. Perhaps the potential for
>>> friendship could
>>>>> be
>>>>> there, but I have not consented to whatever this game is. And
>>> that is not
>>>>> the stuff friendship can be built on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sending this to your private address because it is
>>> absolutely none of
>>>>> the group?s business.
>>>>>
>>>>> Disappointfrustrated ? Gutennacht!
>>>>>
>>>>> k
>>>>>
>>>>> I read yours and your wife?s dialog with Don F. Interesting.
>>> Fills in
>>>>> some of the blanks for a newbie. Do you know that one can?t open
>>> your
>>>>> movies on the web?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.? Get a free
>>> 90-day trial!
>>>>
>>>
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://
>> www.w
>>>> indowsonecare.com/?