From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 00:10:35 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 01:08:35 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] mmmmm a kind ssssense
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F90094DB377756535BA15CA8170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C151929B.3722%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Well - it occurred to me that your message through it was that the
information you replied to with it didn't make sense! I admit it took me
until about an hour ago.
How about getting Davy Crockett to open?
On 10/10/06 2:13 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This one makes no sense at all, and Davy Crockett won't open.
>
> k
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear "k"
>
> Didoes 'it' ever cross your mind/body
>
> That rather 'it' not making "sense"
>
> "k" does not (can not?) "make sense"?
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Others, Krisdonzoepat
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 00:11:39 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 01:09:36 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F14FEA235B73F1FAA072608A8170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C15192DB.3723%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
This one makes sense!
On 10/10/06 2:19 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> k Excellent, Rodger. How wonderful you were able to work with a
> professional medical researcher. And I will check out the book. Will look
> forward to more exchange on neuroscience, if you are willing. Thanks to the
> great teacher of
>
> http://tinyurl.com/oahrh
>
> ...keep y'our fingers cr-r-r-rossed, dear ;-!
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 00:17:20 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 01:15:17 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Prepared Improvising
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F1833827EADEA5F3ABEDFF0A8170@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1519430.3725%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Well, maybe I can make the picture larger so I can see better.
Anyway, I've got hold of the scores to 5 piano compositions and The English
Cat by Henze. Wow!
I really want to tell you about it. The satire is wonderful! Will write
more when I have supper. I just got in from the dentist, and I'm hungry.
I'm so glad you sent that whateveryoucallit last Sunday!
loveandlater, k
On 10/10/06 2:36 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> k > Sorry, Kris - but I don't get the connection between a couple of workmen
> up a tree and acquiring the tools of improv..........
>
>
>
>
> Dear "k", those are not "workmen".....
>
>
>
>
>
> "k" 'gotta' "pay"more"attention"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & Alterness, k ris
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.m
> icrosoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hm
> tagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 03:02:02 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 03:59:44 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Coda - especially for Franis
Message-ID: <C151BACA.3726%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Well-l-l-l-l - Harvard Dictionary of Music must update its information!
In the Concerto for Piano and Orchestra by Hans Werner Henze, the composer
featured on the website broadcast Kris sent us last Sunday, I found an
innovation you may be interested in. The work is in 3 movements ? normal.
But ? instead of putting the Coda at the end of a composition or movement,
he has called the entire third movement, Coda. Another innovation, the
second movement is Pas de deux, which (as you know) is associated with
ballet. I picked up the scores to several of his piano works today at the
library, so that?s how I found out. best, k
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Wed Oct 11 03:50:15 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 04:48:47 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
Message-ID: <20061010.215015.4080.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Our favorite subject. Sometimes I "act" on the idea that if I respond
less to this stuff, others will respond more. Sometimes I suspend the non
response.
As I speak (write) there is awareness that it is not literally "I"
[personal "I"] that guides these actions, but assumptions; thoughts,
"ideas."
The thing about "artists" experiencing works taking form "through" them
rather than "from" them [personally] is that the results of this
experience appear in a concrete form that is then appreciated and spoken
of. Speaking of "the process" often happens.
But this process occurs in everyday "life" too. It is ongoing. This
[awareness] is a byproduct of "awareness of thought" [as per bohm -
and many others of course].
"Pollution of Experience" is a good metaphor.
Does anyone else notice that things just seem to be "happening?"
And that's it? And that "I am doing this" is just a thought that occurs
[if & when it occurs] slightly 'after' whatever 'event' the thought
has [claimed to have] captured. Actually it can seem that the
"capturing of event" AS event, and the personal I, [thought]
are just aspects of the same thought.
(I know there are deep and strong "moral"* arguments
against such a thing. These tap into the most rigid
of the cultural assumptions - into taboo areas in relation to
deep inquiry).
*Good & Evil, Culpability, Justice, Responsibility,
Choice, Free Will.
Formidable, religion based [thought] walls
[against inquiry; especially social inquiry (as in group dialogue).
These areas invite a lot of private inquiry].
pat
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes:
When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e.,
the music unfolds from the implicate?
The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel,
somehow 'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art
becomes explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work
.... Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White
(NY Times sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and
thirty minutes later the job was done.
Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often
they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and
like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't
doing it.
I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal
and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am,
before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
----- Original Message -----
From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely
solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue,
it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between
different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said
group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret the
meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of the
whole?
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From benschcoe at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 04:04:36 2006
From: benschcoe at hotmail.com (Regina Bensch-Coe)
Date: Thu Oct 12 05:02:19 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <000201c6ec71$c5f53980$7501a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Message-ID: <BAY123-F1729C3B72C23F12B5A031EB7140@phx.gbl>
As I understand it, there are two approaches or interpretations of
creativity.
1. Designing as Drama, Designing toward a Conclusion (mechanical knowledge)
and
2. Designing as Unfoldment and Discovery of Intention and Logos. Before
realization or a new reality, the intention and the word or image
(logos/meaning) to describe it existed unknown, unseen in a field of
disturbance (the implicate order). This (creative knowledge) emerges from
the implicate order after attention is given to the continuum and space
between thought (as a working assumption) and disturbance. Thus, this
attention comes in form of inquiry, of asking a question that no one else
has asked or dared to give attention to. Emergence of a new reality cannot
be willed or predicted. Thus, the movement is beyond time. The individual
who is called to ask and answer the question that stirs deeply and undefined
within yearns for coherence (ratio). No amount of money or reward can
replace this yearning or this quest for coherence. And, no one can save him;
it is an alone journey toward individuation or meme creation (a
first-of-a-kind, society-accepted product or theory).
Hemingway also said that with one of his books, he reworked the last
paragraph over 40 times. When these authors/artists say they did not do the
work what they meant was they did not FORCE the work, they did not
force coherence. For example, Clarrisa Pinkola Estees gave over 20 years of
attention to the unfoldment process of her best seller: Women Who Run With
the Wolves.
Regina
>From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400
>
>When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e.,
>the music unfolds from the implicate?
>
>The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel, somehow
>'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art becomes
>explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work ....
>Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White (NY Times
>sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and thirty
>minutes later the job was done.
>
>Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often
>they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and like
>Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't doing
>it.
>
>I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal
>and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am,
>before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
>applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
>persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
>experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>
>
> Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely
>solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue,
>it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between
>different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said group
>dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
> When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret
>the meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of
>the whole?
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 11:20:11 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 12:17:56 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <20061010.215015.4080.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F397175504AE0B11450ED2A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Dropperanddroppedone ~
http://tinyurl.com/geknm
Kbotgottaerobicicic
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Our favorite subject. Sometimes I "act" on the idea that if I respond
>less to this stuff, others will respond more. Sometimes I suspend the non
>response.
>
>As I speak (write) there is awareness that it is not literally "I"
>[personal "I"] that guides these actions, but assumptions; thoughts,
>"ideas."
>
>The thing about "artists" experiencing works taking form "through" them
>rather than "from" them [personally] is that the results of this
>experience appear in a concrete form that is then appreciated and spoken
>of. Speaking of "the process" often happens.
>
>But this process occurs in everyday "life" too. It is ongoing. This
>[awareness] is a byproduct of "awareness of thought" [as per bohm -
>and many others of course].
>
>"Pollution of Experience" is a good metaphor.
>
>Does anyone else notice that things just seem to be "happening?"
>And that's it? And that "I am doing this" is just a thought that occurs
>[if & when it occurs] slightly 'after' whatever 'event' the thought
>has [claimed to have] captured. Actually it can seem that the
>"capturing of event" AS event, and the personal I, [thought]
>are just aspects of the same thought.
>
>(I know there are deep and strong "moral"* arguments
>against such a thing. These tap into the most rigid
>of the cultural assumptions - into taboo areas in relation to
>deep inquiry).
>
>*Good & Evil, Culpability, Justice, Responsibility,
>Choice, Free Will.
>
>Formidable, religion based [thought] walls
>[against inquiry; especially social inquiry (as in group dialogue).
>These areas invite a lot of private inquiry].
>
>pat
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes:
>When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e.,
>the music unfolds from the implicate?
>
>The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel,
>somehow 'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art
>becomes explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work
>.... Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White
>(NY Times sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and
>thirty minutes later the job was done.
>
>Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often
>they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and
>like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't
>doing it.
>
>I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal
>and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am,
>before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
>applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
>persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
>experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>
>
>Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely
>solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue,
>it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between
>different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said
>group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
>When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret the
>meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of the
>whole?
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 11:24:31 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 12:22:19 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F1729C3B72C23F12B5A031EB7140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F2562C70B9656B5D29AB01CA8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Subscribereginaneschcoe ~
http://tinyurl.com/q6vhf
Love & Yanglogac, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:04:36 -0400
>
>As I understand it, there are two approaches or interpretations of
>creativity.
>
>1. Designing as Drama, Designing toward a Conclusion (mechanical knowledge)
>and
>2. Designing as Unfoldment and Discovery of Intention and Logos. Before
>realization or a new reality, the intention and the word or image
>(logos/meaning) to describe it existed unknown, unseen in a field of
>disturbance (the implicate order). This (creative knowledge) emerges from
>the implicate order after attention is given to the continuum and space
>between thought (as a working assumption) and disturbance. Thus, this
>attention comes in form of inquiry, of asking a question that no one else
>has asked or dared to give attention to. Emergence of a new reality cannot
>be willed or predicted. Thus, the movement is beyond time. The individual
>who is called to ask and answer the question that stirs deeply and
>undefined within yearns for coherence (ratio). No amount of money or reward
>can replace this yearning or this quest for coherence. And, no one can save
>him; it is an alone journey toward individuation or meme creation (a
>first-of-a-kind, society-accepted product or theory).
>
>Hemingway also said that with one of his books, he reworked the last
>paragraph over 40 times. When these authors/artists say they did not do the
>work what they meant was they did not FORCE the work, they did not
>force coherence. For example, Clarrisa Pinkola Estees gave over 20 years of
>attention to the unfoldment process of her best seller: Women Who Run With
>the Wolves.
>
>Regina
>
>
>>From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
>>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400
>>
>>When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e.,
>>the music unfolds from the implicate?
>>
>>The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel, somehow
>>'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art becomes
>>explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work ....
>>Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White (NY Times
>>sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and thirty
>>minutes later the job was done.
>>
>>Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often
>>they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and
>>like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't
>>doing it.
>>
>>I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal
>>and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am,
>>before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
>>applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
>>persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
>>experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
>> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
>> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>>
>>
>> Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely
>>solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue,
>>it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between
>>different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said
>>group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
>> When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret
>>the meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of
>>the whole?
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 11:28:31 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 12:26:16 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <C151D0FA.372C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F352D5FB247D7E4EE7AD8F3A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear "k"
You 're still
On/Off
The wrongongangunging track
Love & P'layers, Susan
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Henze
>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
>
>Hi Krisetal -
>
>Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me that
>because it doesnıt pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few years
>down the road, it is better done this way.
>
>I picked up the score to 5 of Henzeıs compositions for piano today, and
>just
>read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link. So I
>thank you for that. Thereıs so much to say about him, that itıs too much.
>I especially like ³The English Cat² (only libretto). It seems to be rooted
>in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret not
>sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it has
>become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst out in
>laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, Iıd go back there,
>starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War. It
>was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I canıt find anything
>about
>Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced by it.
>He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must have
>been difficult. Iıd really like to see a production of ³The English Cat².
>Henzeıs music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by William
>Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
>
>As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses many
>traditional classical structures and strategies. Except tonality.
>Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very structured
>and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will best
>express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism destroys the
>keynote tonic influence on everything, which by structural relationships,
>includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no tonic
>and
>no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
>excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
>Variations. But I wouldnıt want to live in Serialand forever. Itıs
>another
>one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
>knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, Iım not putting it down.
>Itıs another color in the artistıs palette.
>
>This is all I can do tonight. Itıs great talking with you. Sometimes you
>remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again, thanks
>for
>reminding me that thereıs a lot of different musical styles enfolded in the
>Bohm Universe.
>
>LoveHozhoonandtomorrowısanotherday. k
>
>PS 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
route! http://local.live.com
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 13:16:44 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 14:14:54 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F352D5FB247D7E4EE7AD8F3A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1524ADC.3735%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Morning Everybody!
I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming at
each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite you o
share your layer with me, fellow player.
love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear "k"
>
> You 're still
>
> On/Off
>
> The wrongongangunging track
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & P'layers, Susan
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Henze
>> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
>>
>> Hi Krisetal -
>>
>> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me that
>> because it doesn?t pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few years
>> down the road, it is better done this way.
>>
>> I picked up the score to 5 of Henze?s compositions for piano today, and
>> just
>> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link. So I
>> thank you for that. There?s so much to say about him, that it?s too much.
>> I especially like ?The English Cat? (only libretto). It seems to be rooted
>> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret ? not
>> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it has
>> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst out in
>> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, I?d go back there,
>> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War. It
>> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I can?t find anything
>> about
>> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced by it.
>> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must have
>> been difficult. I?d really like to see a production of ?The English Cat?.
>> Henze?s music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by William
>> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
>>
>> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses many
>> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except ? tonality.
>> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very structured
>> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will best
>> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism destroys the
>> keynote ? tonic influence on everything, which by structural relationships,
>> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no tonic
>> and
>> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
>> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
>> Variations. But I wouldn?t want to live in Serialand forever. It?s
>> another
>> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
>> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, I?m not putting it down.
>> It?s another color in the artist?s palette.
>>
>> This is all I can do tonight. It?s great talking with you. Sometimes you
>> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again, thanks
>> for
>> reminding me that there?s a lot of different musical styles enfolded in the
>> Bohm Universe.
>>
>> LoveHozhoonandtomorrow?sanotherday. k
>>
>> PS ? 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
> route! http://local.live.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donlay at gte.net Wed Oct 11 13:47:42 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Thu Oct 12 14:45:37 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
References: <20061010.215015.4080.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <001801c6ed2b$0f9aaed0$f900a8c0@your0548c161e1>
From: ae.dropper@juno.com
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
PAT: Our favorite subject. Sometimes I "act" on the idea that if I respond less to this stuff, others will respond more. Sometimes I suspend the non response.
As I speak (write) there is awareness that it is not literally "I" [personal "I"] that guides these actions, but assumptions; thoughts, "ideas."
DON L: Evidently one of Bohm's favourite subjects also.
Pat, Is it meaningful to say it is logos as meaning -- that is the wariness in which the ideas occur, in which the idea occurs to not respond, also the idea to watch and suspend the first response, urge, etc?
Seems to me the logos presents one idea or notion or possibility after the other ... inexhaustibly -- and more, the logos differentiates what is and what is not appropriate to act out. In the case of improvization in graphic art, the artist can be vaguely aware of different possibilities or (ONTIC) suggestions ... sort of look at them "mentally" and also become aware that one possibility will be "mouth watering", one way will work better than another way, one color will work betrter than another color, etc..
And when people ooh and aahh at our work and pat us on the head, tell us how brilliant we are ..., of course we say, I decide which color to use, or I decided to do this or that, etc., just as we say I decided to run from the whatever, and I ran out of breath, etc., as if the I did the deciding to run and run out of breath, etc.
Is it a fair example to point to a mother who says that she decided to feed her cub, baby, etc? The reality seems to be that the deciding occurs within the universal systems and has nothing to do with the persona idem system, social identity system and the only reason the I-persona is mentioned is that it is a reflexive system that creates endorphins for the mother as the systems create endorphins for the artist -- as per Bohm saying tas creates endorphins???? -- Don L
PAT: The thing about "artists" experiencing works taking form "through" them rather than "from" them [personally] is that the results of this experience appear in a concrete form that is then appreciated and spoken of. Speaking of "the process" often happens.
But this process occurs in everyday "life" too. It is ongoing. This [awareness] is a byproduct of "awareness of thought" [as per bohm -
and many others of course].
"Pollution of Experience" is a good metaphor.
Does anyone else notice that things just seem to be "happening?"
And that's it? And that "I am doing this" is just a thought that occurs
[if & when it occurs] slightly 'after' whatever 'event' the thought
has [claimed to have] captured. Actually it can seem that the
"capturing of event" AS event, and the personal I, [thought]
are just aspects of the same thought.
(I know there are deep and strong "moral"* arguments
against such a thing. These tap into the most rigid
of the cultural assumptions - into taboo areas in relation to
deep inquiry).
*Good & Evil, Culpability, Justice, Responsibility,
Choice, Free Will.
Formidable, religion based [thought] walls
[against inquiry; especially social inquiry (as in group dialogue).
These areas invite a lot of private inquiry].
pat
On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes:
When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate; i.e., the music unfolds from the implicate?
The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel, somehow 'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art becomes explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work .... Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White (NY Times sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and thirty minutes later the job was done.
Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but often they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs and like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I ain't doing it.
I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ... neuronal and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I am, before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
----- Original Message -----
From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought: surely solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not dialogue, it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue between different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I said group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and interpret the meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a part of the whole?
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 14:26:31 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 15:24:20 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] takingcare, oftime
In-Reply-To: <001801c6ed2b$0f9aaed0$f900a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4B9E7607CCAC67BB0FE8FA8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Hobbybrusherdonl
http://www.us-way.de/malen/hgr.jpg & http://tinyurl.com/l8apv
Love & Finearts, Kirsten
>
> PAT: Our favorite subject. Sometimes I "act" on the idea that if I
>respond less to this stuff, others will respond more. Sometimes I suspend
>the non response.
> As I speak (write) there is awareness that it is not literally "I"
>[personal "I"] that guides these actions, but assumptions; thoughts,
>"ideas."
>
> DON L: Evidently one of Bohm's favourite subjects also.
>
> Pat, Is it meaningful to say it is logos as meaning -- that is the
>wariness in which the ideas occur, in which the idea occurs to not respond,
>also the idea to watch and suspend the first response, urge, etc?
>
> Seems to me the logos presents one idea or notion or possibility after
>the other ... inexhaustibly -- and more, the logos differentiates what is
>and what is not appropriate to act out. In the case of improvization in
>graphic art, the artist can be vaguely aware of different possibilities or
>(ONTIC) suggestions ... sort of look at them "mentally" and also become
>aware that one possibility will be "mouth watering", one way will work
>better than another way, one color will work betrter than another color,
>etc..
>
> And when people ooh and aahh at our work and pat us on the head, tell us
>how brilliant we are ..., of course we say, I decide which color to use, or
>I decided to do this or that, etc., just as we say I decided to run from
>the whatever, and I ran out of breath, etc., as if the I did the deciding
>to run and run out of breath, etc.
>
> Is it a fair example to point to a mother who says that she decided to
>feed her cub, baby, etc? The reality seems to be that the deciding occurs
>within the universal systems and has nothing to do with the persona idem
>system, social identity system and the only reason the I-persona is
>mentioned is that it is a reflexive system that creates endorphins for the
>mother as the systems create endorphins for the artist -- as per Bohm
>saying tas creates endorphins???? -- Don L
>
> PAT: The thing about "artists" experiencing works taking form "through"
>them rather than "from" them [personally] is that the results of this
>experience appear in a concrete form that is then appreciated and spoken
>of. Speaking of "the process" often happens.
>
> But this process occurs in everyday "life" too. It is ongoing. This
>[awareness] is a byproduct of "awareness of thought" [as per bohm -
> and many others of course].
>
> "Pollution of Experience" is a good metaphor.
>
> Does anyone else notice that things just seem to be "happening?"
> And that's it? And that "I am doing this" is just a thought that occurs
> [if & when it occurs] slightly 'after' whatever 'event' the thought
> has [claimed to have] captured. Actually it can seem that the
> "capturing of event" AS event, and the personal I, [thought]
> are just aspects of the same thought.
>
> (I know there are deep and strong "moral"* arguments
> against such a thing. These tap into the most rigid
> of the cultural assumptions - into taboo areas in relation to
> deep inquiry).
>
> *Good & Evil, Culpability, Justice, Responsibility,
> Choice, Free Will.
>
> Formidable, religion based [thought] walls
> [against inquiry; especially social inquiry (as in group dialogue).
> These areas invite a lot of private inquiry].
>
> pat
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006 08:45:36 -0400 "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> writes:
> When a musician writes,performs music ... do we say they explicate;
>i.e., the music unfolds from the implicate?
>
> The graphic artist often says although he is present at the easel,
>somehow 'he' does not do the painting. Rather, it unfolds; i.e., art
>becomes explicated. Writers sometimes say "they" did not do the work ....
>Hemingway reread an earlier work, said: did I do that? Ed White (NY Times
>sports writer) said he went to the typewriter, pecked a bit and thirty
>minutes later the job was done.
>
> Where does art come from? We say it comes from the person ..., but
>often they deny it. Maybe it is like the beating heart, breathing lungs
>and like Bohm says of tas: it's happening right here "in there", but I
>ain't doing it.
>
> I'm trying to point to all the sub-systems, quantum systems ...
>neuronal and biological activity that must occur before I even know that I
>am, before self-consciousness occurs -- quite before persona reference is
>applicable. It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the
>persona instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute
>experience. Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: MarkHarmer@aol.com
> To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:01 AM
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
>
>
> Interesting idea! And to me it agrees with my earlier thought:
>surely solo improvisation, recorded (presumably) on ones own, is not
>dialogue, it's monologue. Unless one's perhaps exploring the dialogue
>between different elements of one's personality perhaps... - hence why I
>said group dialogue as opposed to dialogue.
> When the musician makes meaning, does she participate and
>interpret the meaning of the whole for homo-sap -- a partial meaning for a
>part of the whole?
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 14:29:49 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 15:27:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <C1524ADC.3735%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F157A1981143939BEEF12C5A8140@phx.gbl>
http://www.horvatland.com/images/01doc/05elephants/r3-06.jpg
Dear Kris, why don't you send pictures... you can't?
http://www.horvatland.com/images/01doc/05elephants/r3-01.jpg
...... you (s)trapped?
Love & Improvingimprovising, Kathlyn
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:16:44 -0400
>
>Morning Everybody!
>
>I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
>little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
>narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
>elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming at
>each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite you
>o
>share your layer with me, fellow player.
>
>love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
>
>
>On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > Dear "k"
> >
> > You 're still
> >
> > On/Off
> >
> > The wrongongangunging track
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & P'layers, Susan
> >
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Henze
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
> >>
> >> Hi Krisetal -
> >>
> >> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me
>that
> >> because it doesnıt pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few
>years
> >> down the road, it is better done this way.
> >>
> >> I picked up the score to 5 of Henzeıs compositions for piano today, and
> >> just
> >> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link.
>So I
> >> thank you for that. Thereıs so much to say about him, that itıs too
>much.
> >> I especially like ³The English Cat² (only libretto). It seems to be
>rooted
> >> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret
>not
> >> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it
>has
> >> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst out
>in
> >> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, Iıd go back
>there,
> >> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War.
>It
> >> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I canıt find anything
> >> about
> >> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced by
>it.
> >> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must
>have
> >> been difficult. Iıd really like to see a production of ³The English
>Cat².
> >> Henzeıs music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by
>William
> >> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
> >>
> >> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses
>many
> >> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except tonality.
> >> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very
>structured
> >> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will
>best
> >> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism destroys
>the
> >> keynote tonic influence on everything, which by structural
>relationships,
> >> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no
>tonic
> >> and
> >> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
> >> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
> >> Variations. But I wouldnıt want to live in Serialand forever. Itıs
> >> another
> >> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
> >> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, Iım not putting it
>down.
> >> Itıs another color in the artistıs palette.
> >>
> >> This is all I can do tonight. Itıs great talking with you. Sometimes
>you
> >> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again,
>thanks
> >> for
> >> reminding me that thereıs a lot of different musical styles enfolded in
>the
> >> Bohm Universe.
> >>
> >> LoveHozhoonandtomorrowısanotherday. k
> >>
> >> PS 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
> > route! http://local.live.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Wed Oct 11 15:00:20 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 15:58:17 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <20061012100003.CC6E323B52@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF772697BB.47EC586F-ON85257204.0044BBC9-85257204.0047711A@dialogos.com>
Rodger __I would describe conscience as basically;
-what we know in our heart, re:the hearts own complex neuronal processing
and memory capabilities.
in this sense, the heart informing us, moment to moment, of things that our
rational mind is usually deaf to.
-what we know through our senses, in present time.
our body is directly connected to incoming senses of our surroundings and
has its own natural range of feelings/response. Once again, our rational
mind is usually deaf.
-what we KNOW-WITHOUT-THINKING, our intuitive awareness, or voice within.
Unfortunately, more often than not, the emotional-hormones that were
prominent when people learned about morals, rights/wrongs, are misconstrued
as conscience.
When those old emotional-hormone patterns are fired up on cue, people
-believe- they are hearing their voice of conscience.
But our voice of conscience, like improv, is always fresh and new, and in
the moment. _R
.
.
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
And what is in the contents of the conscience.
.
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Wed Oct 11 15:05:40 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 16:03:32 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: reason-ance, logos-ance
In-Reply-To: <20061012100003.CC6E323B52@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFFB421267.61D2B599-ON85257204.0047DE74-85257204.0047EE37@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Lead the way Don. Tell us about Reason-ance, logos-ance,
ratio-ance. _R
.
.
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] music & assumptions
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
.
It seems to me that so long as we continue talking about the persona
instead of instead of the processes, we continue to pollute experience.
Reason-ance, logos-ance, ratio-ance? -- Don L
.
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 15:27:06 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 16:24:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F157A1981143939BEEF12C5A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C152696A.373C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Kri-i-i-i-i-s -
I didn't write this!
Oh funny! Thanks for the elephants, the offer to help, and the
encouragement to expand my improvising. I'll go check out the site. Yes,
I'm trapped as far as finding the actual images is concerned. And I don't
know how to put them in an email like you do.
Loveexpandingvocabularyandgamerepetory -
KKathyKathrynCathernCharlotteLajibaraamericanasilverstreaktangy - kathlyn?
Actually, that's quite pretty.
Image - a rose
"A rose by any other name is still a rose."
On 10/11/06 8:29 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://www.horvatland.com/images/01doc/05elephants/r3-06.jpg
>
>
> Dear Kris, why don't you send pictures... you can't?
>
>
> http://www.horvatland.com/images/01doc/05elephants/r3-01.jpg
>
>
> ...... you (s)trapped?
>
>
> Love & Improvingimprovising, Kathlyn
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:16:44 -0400
>>
>> Morning Everybody!
>>
>> I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
>> little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
>> narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
>> elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming at
>> each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite you
>> o
>> share your layer with me, fellow player.
>>
>> love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
>>
>>
>> On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear "k"
>>>
>>> You 're still
>>>
>>> On/Off
>>>
>>> The wrongongangunging track
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & P'layers, Susan
>>>
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>>> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Henze
>>>> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Hi Krisetal -
>>>>
>>>> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me
>> that
>>>> because it doesn?t pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few
>> years
>>>> down the road, it is better done this way.
>>>>
>>>> I picked up the score to 5 of Henze?s compositions for piano today, and
>>>> just
>>>> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link.
>> So I
>>>> thank you for that. There?s so much to say about him, that it?s too
>> much.
>>>> I especially like ?The English Cat? (only libretto). It seems to be
>> rooted
>>>> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret ?
>> not
>>>> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it
>> has
>>>> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst out
>> in
>>>> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, I?d go back
>> there,
>>>> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War.
>> It
>>>> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I can?t find anything
>>>> about
>>>> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced by
>> it.
>>>> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must
>> have
>>>> been difficult. I?d really like to see a production of ?The English
>> Cat?.
>>>> Henze?s music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by
>> William
>>>> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
>>>>
>>>> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses
>> many
>>>> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except ? tonality.
>>>> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very
>> structured
>>>> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will
>> best
>>>> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism destroys
>> the
>>>> keynote ? tonic influence on everything, which by structural
>> relationships,
>>>> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no
>> tonic
>>>> and
>>>> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
>>>> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
>>>> Variations. But I wouldn?t want to live in Serialand forever. It?s
>>>> another
>>>> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
>>>> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, I?m not putting it
>> down.
>>>> It?s another color in the artist?s palette.
>>>>
>>>> This is all I can do tonight. It?s great talking with you. Sometimes
>> you
>>>> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again,
>> thanks
>>>> for
>>>> reminding me that there?s a lot of different musical styles enfolded in
>> the
>>>> Bohm Universe.
>>>>
>>>> LoveHozhoonandtomorrow?sanotherday. k
>>>>
>>>> PS ? 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the best
>>> route! http://local.live.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.m
> icrosoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hm
> tagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 15:34:00 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 16:31:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <OF772697BB.47EC586F-ON85257204.0044BBC9-85257204.0047711A@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <C1526B08.373E%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Yes, but what knowledge is that, and where did it come from?
Did you and the scientist you worked with define intuition?
How and why is it fresh and new in the moment?
Where can I find scientific information on ?the hearts own complex neuronal
processing and memory capabilities.?
What do you mean by ?heart?? For a while, I thought you meant my heart
inside my body pumping blood, but I don?t think so now.
I?m getting ready for two medical appointments, so I have to postpone
discussion until I get back. Please keep the ideas coming.
Best, k
On 10/11/06 9:00 AM, "Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com" <Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com>
wrote:
> Rodger __I would describe conscience as basically;
> -what we know in our heart, re:the hearts own complex neuronal processing and
> memory capabilities.
> in this sense, the heart informing us, moment to moment, of things that our
> rational mind is usually deaf to.
>
> -what we know through our senses, in present time.
> our body is directly connected to incoming senses of our surroundings and has
> its own natural range of feelings/response. Once again, our rational mind is
> usually deaf.
>
> -what we KNOW-WITHOUT-THINKING, our intuitive awareness, or voice within.
>
> Unfortunately, more often than not, the emotional-hormones that were prominent
> when people learned about morals, rights/wrongs, are misconstrued as
> conscience.
> When those old emotional-hormone patterns are fired up on cue, people
> -believe- they are hearing their voice of conscience.
>
> But our voice of conscience, like improv, is always fresh and new, and in the
> moment. _R
> .
> .
> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> .
> And what is in the contents of the conscience.
> .
> .
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Wed Oct 11 15:51:19 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 16:49:09 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <20061012100003.CC6E323B52@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF7101DA36.6876C64A-ON85257204.00490474-85257204.004C1C18@dialogos.com>
Rodger __That sticking point you mention is a conundrum. Once when I stood
in a food line with some very fine conscious men and some extremely
muscular, mercenary types who seemed would do anything to maintain a
ruthless & tough identity --for money.
I watched the two different types putting food on their plates. The
ruthless threw mountains of meat onto their plates, far more than I
imagined possible to eat.
They ate it all, went back for seconds.
The other men selected food more deliberately, staying within
esthetic-proportion to the size of the plate.
What the above does not describe are the feelings I experienced in that
line. Emotionally, the soldiers just seemed like dangerously over-trained
teenagers.
While the finer men seemed fearlessly resolved. And levels of social
backgrounds were irrelevant.
That was the first time I wondered if I was actually observing two
different species altogether, and whether the idea of equality was missing
some variation. _R
.
.
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:32:01 -0400
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
The sticking point here, as I see it, is why are some people able to mature
and make new
meaning, while others aren?t.
.
.
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 16:08:44 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:06:35 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
Message-ID: <C152732D.373F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Dear Kris ?
I wish i could share the photos in this book, ?The Cabaret? by Lisa
Appignmaesi, with you. You?d love it. Here are some of the words.
?Cabaret emerged as a satirical stage of contemporaneity, a critically
reflective mirror of topical events, morals, politics and culture.
Dissent...was the essence of cabaret...The relationship between performer
and spectator is one of both intimacy and hostility...the cabaret was a
space where...artists, eager for human warmth met to dream the different and
to laugh.?
?When the members of the Paris establishment ventured into the dark, muddy
streets of Montmartre, and through the doors of the Chat noir, they knew
they were coming to be insulted...Contempt would reek from his (Rodolphe
Salis) fingertips as ever-increasing prices were paid for drinks. Many of
the songs or poems were based on a parody of middle-brow culture. Subjects
might be similar, but their treatment was infused with a cynical irony which
precluded any possibility of sentimental effusion or self-righteous
moralistic captioning.?
Cabaret was a meeting place for artists to share ideas and showcase their
work:
?Stravinsky?s ballet ?Petroushka? ...springs from the same sources as
Baliev?s living-dolls.? Dalcroze played at the Chat Noir. Debussy, Picasso,
Appolinaire, Max Jacob, Utrillo, Brecht, Bruant, Chaliapin, Rachmaninov,
Bakst, Kafka, Dada was born in Zurich at the Cabaret Voltaire, Rubenstein
played Saint-Saens, Pound, Braque, Ravel, Milhaud, Poulenc, Cocteau.
Isadora Duncan dancing in varying degrees of nudity on table-tops until the
early hours of the morning.
In Zurich, Erika Mann, daughter of Thomas ? founded the Pfeffermuhle in
Vienna, then fled to Zurich to escape Hitler.
One caricature of Hitler was inspired. Maybe we need to think about the art
of satire, its purpose, how to use it responsibly and effectively, and how
we respond to it. There are Native American tribes who have their version
of clown for the same purpose. They declare a particular time of the year
for the clowns to mimic behaviors in order to make people probe more deeply.
I saw myself in some places in ?The English Cat?, yet I wasn?t offended. I
laughed, and loved the clarity of the insight.
loveandlaughter, k
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 16:26:58 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:24:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <C152732D.373F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F34C82E766E9BA06EC848FDA8140@phx.gbl>
>I wish i could share the photos in this book, ³The Cabaretı by Lisa
>Appignmaesi, with you. Youıd love it. Here are some of the words.
Dear Kris, words words words..... lets SEE images!
Love & Trafficlights, Kathryn
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
_________________________________________________________________
The next generation of Searchsay hello!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 16:30:01 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:27:50 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <OF7101DA36.6876C64A-ON85257204.00490474-85257204.004C1C18@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F25AD63706365BB11A94C12A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Subscriberhowdoes"_"
http://tinyurl.com/jn5uz
PS: where didoes all {"all"} those wwwooorrrdddsss get you&us
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Rodger __That sticking point you mention is a conundrum. Once when I stood
>in a food line with some very fine conscious men and some extremely
>muscular, mercenary types who seemed would do anything to maintain a
>ruthless & tough identity --for money.
>
>I watched the two different types putting food on their plates. The
>ruthless threw mountains of meat onto their plates, far more than I
>imagined possible to eat.
>They ate it all, went back for seconds.
>
>The other men selected food more deliberately, staying within
>esthetic-proportion to the size of the plate.
>
>What the above does not describe are the feelings I experienced in that
>line. Emotionally, the soldiers just seemed like dangerously over-trained
>teenagers.
>While the finer men seemed fearlessly resolved. And levels of social
>backgrounds were irrelevant.
>
>That was the first time I wondered if I was actually observing two
>different species altogether, and whether the idea of equality was missing
>some variation. _R
>.
>.
>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:32:01 -0400
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>.
>The sticking point here, as I see it, is why are some people able to mature
>and make new
>meaning, while others arenıt.
>.
>.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 16:33:57 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:31:45 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <C1526B08.373E%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F4DE6EF5A9A100C4940CB1A8140@phx.gbl>
>Iım getting ready for two medical appointments, so I have to postpone
>discussion until I get back. Please keep the ideas coming.
>
Dear Kris, why would anybodymind in this chatchatchatclubclubclub here
give a hoohoohootttt aboutyourmedicalappointmentsandotherconditionshmm?
http://tinyurl.com/f8rfu
Love & Medications, Kathryn
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
)(
_________________________________________________________________
SearchYour way, your world, right now!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 16:36:41 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:34:28 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <OF772697BB.47EC586F-ON85257204.0044BBC9-85257204.0047711A@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F36F258D67BA73BED858A93A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear "_"
http://www.madulein.com/images/ente_wanne_web.jpg
Love & Gottagogogo, Roger
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:00:20 -0400
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Rodger __I would describe conscience as basically;
>-what we know in our heart, re:the hearts own complex neuronal processing
>and memory capabilities.
>in this sense, the heart informing us, moment to moment, of things that our
>rational mind is usually deaf to.
>
>-what we know through our senses, in present time.
>our body is directly connected to incoming senses of our surroundings and
>has its own natural range of feelings/response. Once again, our rational
>mind is usually deaf.
>
>-what we KNOW-WITHOUT-THINKING, our intuitive awareness, or voice within.
>
>Unfortunately, more often than not, the emotional-hormones that were
>prominent when people learned about morals, rights/wrongs, are misconstrued
>as conscience.
>When those old emotional-hormone patterns are fired up on cue, people
>-believe- they are hearing their voice of conscience.
>
>But our voice of conscience, like improv, is always fresh and new, and in
>the moment. _R
>.
>.
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>.
>And what is in the contents of the conscience.
>.
>.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 16:43:14 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:41:04 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F34C82E766E9BA06EC848FDA8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1527B42.3746%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Wow - you're fast and to the point. I love it! More later on "how to" with
images. It's time to take care of the body part of mindbody.
Image - the rabbit in "Alice" - "I'm late.............'
love, k
On 10/11/06 10:26 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>
>> I wish i could share the photos in this book, ?The Cabaret? by Lisa
>> Appignmaesi, with you. You?d love it. Here are some of the words.
>
>
>
> Dear Kris, words words words..... lets SEE images!
>
>
>
> Love & Trafficlights, Kathryn
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 16:44:50 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:42:36 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F4DE6EF5A9A100C4940CB1A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C1527BA2.3747%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Dear Kris - what's in the gum wrapper? love k
On 10/11/06 10:33 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
>> I?m getting ready for two medical appointments, so I have to postpone
>> discussion until I get back. Please keep the ideas coming.
>>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Kris, why would anybodymind in this chatchatchatclubclubclub here
>
> give a hoohoohootttt aboutyourmedicalappointmentsandotherconditionshmm?
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/f8rfu
>
>
> Love & Medications, Kathryn
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> )(
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Search?Your way, your world, right now!
>
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
G
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From ae.dropper at juno.com Wed Oct 11 16:39:01 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 17:43:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
Message-ID: <20061011.104444.3988.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
That was the first time I wondered if I was actually observing two
different species altogether, and whether the idea of equality was
missing some variation. (_R)
We can find the "equality" among the three examples of men [the "fine,
conscious" one, the "muscular mercenary" one, and Rodger - probably an
example of a "fine, conscious" one], in that they are all equally moved
by their beliefs.
The dualistic split in fundamental beliefs could be stated as "a belief
in basic goodness" and "a belief in basic badness." Or variations on
"Life is Sacred" and "Life is Profane."
Each believer will see his belief as truth and will see the other as
"Wrong." This is another basic equalizing factor - seeing other as wrong.
The moment that belief* itself is seen as an inherent barer of falsity
and fiction, the puzzling of whether a certain class of people is from
another planet, falls away.
*A fixed concept, which fixity [inappropriately] applies.
What thought does is abstract from the flow, and make provisionally
comprehensible to the mind, certain
"moments of being." When one of these 'comprehensions'
forms a foundation for psychological or social action,
we 'act in the dark'. (pat)
why are some people able to mature and make new
meaning, while others aren?t. (kathryn)
.
We are all "maturing." Some of us "mature" 'all at once'.
Some go gradually. Those that 'go gradually' each "go"
a unique and unpredictable 'way'. Thought tends to apply a limited
variety of "templates" to the ways that others
must "go."
pat
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:51:19 -0400 Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com writes:
Rodger __That sticking point you mention is a conundrum. Once when I
stood in a food line with some very fine conscious men and some extremely
muscular, mercenary types who seemed would do anything to maintain a
ruthless & tough identity --for money.
I watched the two different types putting food on their plates. The
ruthless threw mountains of meat onto their plates, far more than I
imagined possible to eat.
They ate it all, went back for seconds.
The other men selected food more deliberately, staying within
esthetic-proportion to the size of the plate.
What the above does not describe are the feelings I experienced in that
line. Emotionally, the soldiers just seemed like dangerously over-trained
teenagers.
While the finer men seemed fearlessly resolved. And levels of social
backgrounds were irrelevant.
That was the first time I wondered if I was actually observing two
different species altogether, and whether the idea of equality was
missing some variation. _R
.
.
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 09:32:01 -0400
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
The sticking point here, as I see it, is why are some people able to
mature and make new
meaning, while others aren?t.
.
.
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From tubakari at yahoo.com Wed Oct 11 17:09:22 2006
From: tubakari at yahoo.com (Karilen Mays)
Date: Thu Oct 12 18:07:08 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
Message-ID: <20061011150922.99708.qmail@web52901.mail.yahoo.com>
Kthryn et al
I really like this reply you gave to kirsten. It is articulate and compassionate, and something I would have wanted to send to her, but all I could think as I read her cyptic messages was: this is annoying...I must not be in the mood for this right now..
Thanks,
kari
----- Original Message ----
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 4:16:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
Morning Everybody!
I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming at
each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite you o
share your layer with me, fellow player.
love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear "k"
>
> You 're still
>
> On/Off
>
> The wrongongangunging track
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & P'layers, Susan
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Henze
>> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
>>
>> Hi Krisetal -
>>
>> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me that
>> because it doesn?t pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few years
>> down the road, it is better done this way.
>>
>> I picked up the score to 5 of Henze?s compositions for piano today, and
>> just
>> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link. So I
>> thank you for that. There?s so much to say about him, that it?s too much.
>> I especially like ?The English Cat? (only libretto). It seems to be rooted
>> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret ? not
>> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it has
>> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst out in
>> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, I?d go back there,
>> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War. It
>> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I can?t find anything
>> about
>> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced by it.
>> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must have
>> been difficult. I?d really like to see a production of ?The English Cat?.
>> Henze?s music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by William
>> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
>>
>> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses many
>> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except ? tonality.
>> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very structured
>> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will best
>> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism destroys the
>> keynote ? tonic influence on everything, which by structural relationships,
>> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no tonic
>> and
>> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
>> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
>> Variations. But I wouldn?t want to live in Serialand forever. It?s
>> another
>> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
>> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, I?m not putting it down.
>> It?s another color in the artist?s palette.
>>
>> This is all I can do tonight. It?s great talking with you. Sometimes you
>> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again, thanks
>> for
>> reminding me that there?s a lot of different musical styles enfolded in the
>> Bohm Universe.
>>
>> LoveHozhoonandtomorrow?sanotherday. k
>>
>> PS ? 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best
> route! http://local.live.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 18:25:43 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 19:23:30 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: No right brain?
In-Reply-To: <20061011.104444.3988.3.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F12131269941D2469E8A0A0A8140@phx.gbl>
>We are all "maturing." Some of us "mature" 'all at once'.
>Some go gradually. Those that 'go gradually' each "go"
>a unique and unpredictable 'way'. Thought tends to apply a limited
>variety of "templates" to the ways that others
>must "go."
Dear Dropper,
http://tinyurl.com/lsuks
Love Pat
PS: how 's y'our shrinkging coming along
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 18:28:51 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 19:26:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <20061011150922.99708.qmail@web52901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F14A7E5E36BE3A61FAEA011A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Kris
>I really like this reply you gave to kirsten. It is articulate and
>compassionate, and something I would have wanted to send to her, but all I
>could think as I read her cyptic messages was: this is annoying...I must
>not be in the mood for this right now..
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y14/ketia82/sims/hawaii-labor.jpg
Love & Volume, kari
_________________________________________________________________
Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 18:32:10 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 19:30:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <C1527B42.3746%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F37D276B72E99819566D78A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Kbot,
http://www.ifurn.com/xmodels/SouthernEnterprises/DN9500h.jpg
Love & Inline, Kathryn
>Wow - you're fast and to the point. I love it! More later on "how to"
>with
>images. It's time to take care of the body part of mindbody.
>Image - the rabbit in "Alice" - "I'm late.............'
>love, k
>
>
>
>
>On 10/11/06 10:26 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >> I wish i could share the photos in this book, ³The Cabaretı by Lisa
> >> Appignmaesi, with you. Youıd love it. Here are some of the words.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Kris, words words words..... lets SEE images!
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & Trafficlights, Kathryn
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The next generation of Searchsay hello!
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTA>
>G
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 18:36:51 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 19:34:43 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Being, & "Fast"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F14A7E5E36BE3A61FAEA011A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F130CFEF29665F807E01D8EA8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Bohmchatsubscribers,
http://www.uwe-langenkamp.de/images/AUT_9852_small.JPG
How far can Bohm/Dialogogogo
How far can we go
How far have we come.
Wait, wrong
Make that
"Fast" for "far"
A child ...... a loving child ..... a loved child..... a lovemaking child
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
From ae.dropper at juno.com Wed Oct 11 19:29:08 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Thu Oct 12 20:29:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
Message-ID: <20061011.133051.3988.5.ae.dropper@juno.com>
The one about the "fool" [archetype] (in so many words - "cabaret"), was
great too!
pat
On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Karilen Mays
<tubakari@yahoo.com> writes:
Kthryn et al
I really like this reply you gave to kirsten. It is articulate and
compassionate, and something I would have wanted to send to her, but all
I could think as I read her cyptic messages was: this is annoying...I
must not be in the mood for this right now..
Thanks,
kari
----- Original Message ----
From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 4:16:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
Morning Everybody!
I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming
at
each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite
you o
share your layer with me, fellow player.
love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear "k"
>
> You 're still
>
> On/Off
>
> The wrongongangunging track
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Love & P'layers, Susan
>
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Henze
>> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
>>
>> Hi Krisetal -
>>
>> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me
that
>> because it doesn?t pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few
years
>> down the road, it is better done this way.
>>
>> I picked up the score to 5 of Henze?s compositions for piano today,
and
>> just
>> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link.
So I
>> thank you for that. There?s so much to say about him, that it?s too
much.
>> I especially like ?The English Cat? (only libretto). It seems to be
rooted
>> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret ?
not
>> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it
has
>> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst
out in
>> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, I?d go back
there,
>> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War.
It
>> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I can?t find anything
>> about
>> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced
by it.
>> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must
have
>> been difficult. I?d really like to see a production of ?The English
Cat?.
>> Henze?s music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by
William
>> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
>>
>> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses
many
>> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except ? tonality.
>> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very
structured
>> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will
best
>> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism
destroys the
>> keynote ? tonic influence on everything, which by structural
relationships,
>> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no
tonic
>> and
>> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
>> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
>> Variations. But I wouldn?t want to live in Serialand forever. It?s
>> another
>> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
>> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, I?m not putting it
down.
>> It?s another color in the artist?s palette.
>>
>> This is all I can do tonight. It?s great talking with you. Sometimes
you
>> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again,
thanks
>> for
>> reminding me that there?s a lot of different musical styles enfolded
in the
>> Bohm Universe.
>>
>> LoveHozhoonandtomorrow?sanotherday. k
>>
>> PS ? 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the
best
> route! http://local.live.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 19:44:13 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 20:42:00 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <20061011.133051.3988.5.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F19EB2BABFD5D3B1AA559F1A8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Dropper
Du bist auch nicht 'ohne'
http://www.kinderballett.com/tanzmausweb.jpg
Love, pat
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: ae.dropper@juno.com
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:29:08 -0400
>
>The one about the "fool" [archetype] (in so many words - "cabaret"), was
>great too!
>
>pat
>
>On Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:09:22 -0700 (PDT) Karilen Mays
><tubakari@yahoo.com> writes:
>Kthryn et al
>I really like this reply you gave to kirsten. It is articulate and
>compassionate, and something I would have wanted to send to her, but all
>I could think as I read her cyptic messages was: this is annoying...I
>must not be in the mood for this right now..
>
>Thanks,
>kari
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 4:16:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
>
>
>Morning Everybody!
>
>I'm on my track. I can't possibly be on yours unless you share with me a
>little of your track. Isn't that what it's all about - broadening our
>narrow, personal worlds by sharing? I send you a mental image of a big
>elephant with 6 blind sages all feeling different parts of it, screaming
>at
>each other about who "knows" what this foreign object is. So I invite
>you o
>share your layer with me, fellow player.
>
>love, and Ican'tkeepupwithallyournames! k
>
>
>On 10/11/06 5:28 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> > Dear "k"
> >
> > You 're still
> >
> > On/Off
> >
> > The wrongongangunging track
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Love & P'layers, Susan
> >
> > --------------------------
> > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> To: kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Henze
> >> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:36:42 -0400
> >>
> >> Hi Krisetal -
> >>
> >> Publish this on the dialog website, if you want. It just seemed to me
>that
> >> because it doesnıt pertain to Bohm until perhaps I analyze it a few
>years
> >> down the road, it is better done this way.
> >>
> >> I picked up the score to 5 of Henzeıs compositions for piano today,
>and
> >> just
> >> read through them. I had never heard of him until you sent the link.
>So I
> >> thank you for that. Thereıs so much to say about him, that itıs too
>much.
> >> I especially like ³The English Cat² (only libretto). It seems to be
>rooted
> >> in the avant garde traditions stemming from the time of real cabaret
>not
> >> sleazy strip joints, or just pretty people singing sexy songs that it
>has
> >> become. People on the bus kept staring at me because I would burst
>out in
> >> laughter at some of the satire. If I could time travel, Iıd go back
>there,
> >> starting with Chat Noir in Paris, on up through the Second World War.
>It
> >> was such a wonderful, inventive, creative time! I canıt find anything
> >> about
> >> Henze being connected with Cabaret, but he must have been influenced
>by it.
> >> He grew up in Germany during its heyday. And he was gay, so it must
>have
> >> been difficult. Iıd really like to see a production of ³The English
>Cat².
> >> Henzeıs music reaches back to forms and styles that were used by
>William
> >> Byrd and his era. HOW did he fit it together?
> >>
> >> As for the music, the rhythm is no problem for me to read. He uses
>many
> >> traditional classical structures and strategies. Except tonality.
> >> Classically trained, then moving into Serialism (which is very
>structured
> >> and dependent on Classical theory) , he uses whatever he feels will
>best
> >> express his meaning. That is my intent, also. But, Serialism
>destroys the
> >> keynote tonic influence on everything, which by structural
>relationships,
> >> includes rhythm at its deepest, most connected level. And with no
>tonic
> >> and
> >> no key, you have literally entered a different dimension. It is an
> >> excellent sound for particular ideas, for instance, the Lucy Escott
> >> Variations. But I wouldnıt want to live in Serialand forever. Itıs
> >> another
> >> one of those realities I prefer to be able to walk into and out of
> >> knowledgeably, and at will. Please understand, Iım not putting it
>down.
> >> Itıs another color in the artistıs palette.
> >>
> >> This is all I can do tonight. Itıs great talking with you. Sometimes
>you
> >> remind me of cabaret. Take care, be well, stay safe. And again,
>thanks
> >> for
> >> reminding me that thereıs a lot of different musical styles enfolded
>in the
> >> Bohm Universe.
> >>
> >> LoveHozhoonandtomorrowısanotherday. k
> >>
> >> PS 5 AM is an awful hour to get up!
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more
then map the
>best
> > route! http://local.live.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 21:58:01 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 22:55:51 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] RE: Henze
In-Reply-To: <20061011150922.99708.qmail@web52901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C152C509.3755%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
On 10/11/06 11:09 AM, "Karilen Mays" <tubakari@yahoo.com> wrote:
> all I could think as I read her cyptic messages was: this is annoying.
>
> Hi Kari ? his reply was even greater ? a traffic light. I?m finding that the
> more I think in terms of Bohm, the less I can communicate with the people I
> used to have things in common with. This kind of probing beneath assumptions
> that anchor people in the world frightens so many, and they don?t want to be
> around you on those terms. And I don?t want to be around them because there
> is nothing to share any more. I just had lunch with a close friend who found
> annoying the things I had to talk about. Sharing my questioning in my own
> thinking conflicted with the security she has built for herself with the
> assumptions-set-in-concrete-this-is-the-only-right-way attitude. It is not
> easy to be bright, gifted, creative, questioning, and still spend time with
> those who have no idea about or are frightened by what you?re thinking or
> trying to say. So my reply to him was more than compassion. I truly enjoy
> his company. Some of the things he does are outrageous, but ----I am
> beginning to question why I respond the way I do to some of those things. One
> that occurred to me is that in the absence of gestural and word music context,
> maybe we hear some of his words in situations that have totally different
> meanings for us than the one he meant. So I am beginning to ask, ?how else
> could he have meant that comment?? At the bottom of that is probably the idea
> that I can?t change anyone but myself. And, my interest in visual imagery as
> part of cognition and communication has an experiential component in trying to
> understand the meaning behind images. So that part of his persona is also
> stimulating me to explore new areas of experience. From that, some ideas are
> starting to form that I will eventually post, and hope we can dialog about.
> And ? if I find I really don?t want to deal with something, I can simply
> delete and ignore.
>
> Anyway, those are some of the reasons I would miss Kris if he weren?t around.
> And some of the reasons I value everyone in the group. Best, k
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 22:17:09 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 23:14:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Being, & "Fast"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F130CFEF29665F807E01D8EA8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C152C985.3758%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Beautiful picture, matching words. k
On 10/11/06 12:36 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Bohmchatsubscribers,
>
> http://www.uwe-langenkamp.de/images/AUT_9852_small.JPG
>
> How far can Bohm/Dialogogogo
> How far can we go
> How far have we come.
> Wait, wrong
> Make that
> "Fast" for "far"
>
>
> A child ...... a loving child ..... a loved child..... a lovemaking child
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
> Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> et.live.com/spaces/features
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 22:24:52 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 23:22:41 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F37D276B72E99819566D78A8140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C152CB54.375A%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Dear Kris -
I'm beginning to understand.
Next - I've Googled all the sources for images named on the ones you've
sent, and I can't find the images. I'm going to look again, but if I'm
going to play, I need my game pieces, and finding them will apparently take
time.
LoveandlightbulbsandIneedtogopractice, k
On 10/11/06 12:32 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Dear Kbot,
>
> http://www.ifurn.com/xmodels/SouthernEnterprises/DN9500h.jpg
>
> Love & Inline, Kathryn
>
>
>> Wow - you're fast and to the point. I love it! More later on "how to"
>> with
>> images. It's time to take care of the body part of mindbody.
>> Image - the rabbit in "Alice" - "I'm late.............'
>> love, k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/11/06 10:26 AM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wish i could share the photos in this book, ?The Cabaret? by Lisa
>>>> Appignmaesi, with you. You?d love it. Here are some of the words.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Kris, words words words..... lets SEE images!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Love & Trafficlights, Kathryn
>>> --------------------------
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> The next generation of Search?say hello!
>>>
>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMT
>> A>
>> G
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Wed Oct 11 22:37:51 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Thu Oct 12 23:35:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] how many ways?
Message-ID: <C152CE5F.375C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> Dear Kris,
Instead of ?why would anybodymind in this chatchatchatclubclubclub here
>
> give a hoohoohootttt aboutyourmedicalappointmentsandotherconditionshmm?
loveandmedications?
what about
Dear Kris ? the only rerereason I would leave such an interesting
conversation is to take care of the things that will enable me to keep
chatchatchating with youyouyou!
I?m on my way to find a picture of a dog barking up a tree!
LoveandIdon?ttakemedications, k
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 22:43:57 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 23:41:48 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] how many ways?
In-Reply-To: <C152CE5F.375C%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F72E42301119D1173AF66CA8140@phx.gbl>
>LoveandIdonıttakemedications
Dear Cathleen
She takes Bohmchatdialogue .... same thinkg
Love, Kelly
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 22:52:47 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Thu Oct 12 23:50:37 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Being, & "Fast"
Message-ID: <BAY107-F198ED19E210EBFCE01D52BA8140@phx.gbl>
Dear Notjustmedicationtaker... here 'we'
"have"
it again
"beautiful"
that
thinkg
(you never got in to that.... as so many other thinkgs...
but lets not ......... for get...... this is the bohmCHATclub...)
you might want to club on thit one for a second if y'our mind
permit s:
beauty
c.1275, from Anglo-Norm. beute, from O.Fr ...[german"beute" = booty]
booty
"plunder, gain, profit," c.1439, from O.Fr. butin "booty," from M.L.G. bute
"exchange;" infl. in form and sense by boot (2). Meaning "female body
considered as a sex object" is 1920s, black slang.
Love & Deeplease, Kathryn
>Beautiful picture, matching words. k
>
>
>On 10/11/06 12:36 PM, "kirsten schneide" <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
> >
> > Dear Bohmchatsubscribers,
> >
> > http://www.uwe-langenkamp.de/images/AUT_9852_small.JPG
> >
> > How far can Bohm/Dialogogogo
> > How far can we go
> > How far have we come.
> > Wait, wrong
> > Make that
> > "Fast" for "far"
> >
> >
> > A child ...... a loving child ..... a loved child..... a lovemaking
>child
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
>Live
> > Spaces
> >
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.g
> > et.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Wed Oct 11 23:11:28 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Fri Oct 13 00:09:40 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] cabaret
In-Reply-To: <C152CB54.375A%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F23E530DD4DC12C5A923040A8140@phx.gbl>
http://www.mein-coach-online.de/moodle/file.php/1/hexenhaus-kle.jpg
>Dear Kris -
>I'm beginning to understand.
This, dear, 's the condition of the humaninmal
Its dis ease
That NECESSITY (drivennessmess) to
"UNDERSTAND"
....... to get thinkg..... 'it'
That 's what didoes get youus so deep
In to (sh)it
http://www