From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Sun Nov 19 01:16:01 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sun Nov 19 01:16:03 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Life is personal
In-Reply-To: <20061118110003.379CC24F5E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFA6269383.4E4E034F-ON8525794C.00437EB6-8525794C.004840F1@dialogos.com>
Rodger __Impersonal, i.e. without any human characteristics or personality?
And yet humans are involved? Anyone notice a glitch?
More likely, -impersonal- is a disfunctional image of being rational. It is
often an image so keen on avoiding feelings that the term rational does not
apply.
Anyway, humanity need not decide which behaviours are characteristically
human-like. That would take millennium of homogenizing cultures and
languages , and then require a common language to define being-human-like.
And after all that, a global agreement would need be reached concerning any
behaviour that ISNT very human-like = impersonal.
So much for impersonal -- actually the night before last, here in Japan,
there was a big earthquake followed by a siren warning of a tsunami.
Everyone who lives near ocean level had to evacuate their homes! We are at
the top of a small mountain overlooking the sea so we didnt need to
evacuate. So much for impersonal. _R
.
.
From: Gill Wyatt <earthsky@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] robust dialogue and the middle way
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
.
So there are personal connections between some people AND the more
'impersonal' Koinonia.
I like both/ands rather than either/ors!
Gill
.
.
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From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 02:58:17 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 04:04:33 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
Message-ID: <007f01c70b7e$324b02b0$1d53153f@DL01>
Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write it out so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so I use the dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when it gets slow, tas provides some crazy thoughts:
They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to ban me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet. They'll come and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh! What can I do!
I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial; I will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools prancing, surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
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From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Nov 19 05:27:38 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Nov 20 07:33:19 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
In-Reply-To: <20061118162652.xrqadk96fl4oo80s@imp1.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <C185395A.8102%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Matti,
Thank you for another vivid scene/experience. I am not versed in jazz, but
I "heard" something of this epiphany, I think. What I don't understand is
the relationship of this to last summer's postings here. I only joined last
summer, so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm excited about the
possibilities of dialogue as Bohm envisioned it. I'm not sure it has or can
happen via email. I was struck by the freedom of the music you describe,
yet with order emerging out of that seeming chaos. I can see that as having
something to do with Bohm's vision. And I sense what went on here last
summer as not having either that freedom or that order. Can you elaborate
at all on what you meant?
I've gotten hooked by this list. I really want to understand and to learn.
Lynne
On 11/18/06 8:26 AM, "Matti Vaittinen" <Matti.Vaittinen@uta.fi> wrote:
> It took me two months to recover from last summer's Dialogue session
> (in here), it's true. I realised my brain finally being "washed"
> (from the remnants of Dialogue), or, I don't know "washed away",
> maybe, as I attended a series of jazz concerts here in Tampere two
> weeks ago, during one weekend. It began gradually, slowly. Thursday
> evening I went (in fact, accidentally) to this club where there was
> supposed to be a free drumming session by a guy named Adam Rudolph.
> It turned out to be a free drumming "class" for everyone; rudimentary
> drumming ;-) I joined in, and there I was suddenly clapping after the
> instructions of Master Rudolph, a very relaxed fellow. But what
> really swept me off my feet, after an hour or so, was a film by a
> Swedish guy, who introduced the film for us. Now, I just can't
> remember the name of the artist, wait a minute: Alber Ayler, yes. He
> was one of the first people to play f r e e jazz on Earth. I mean
> it was an explosion, amazing (and "brain damaging") to see and listen
> to this man playing his saxophone louder, fiercer and "crazier" than
> any punk rocker or such band that came to existence after him. Yes,
> ... (- but, well, I don't know, the end was a little sad as it turned
> out that Alber Ayler jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge in late 1970, so
> ...) Anyway, this was the begining, and I became interested, wanting
> to experience more of live jazz. The next step on my way of getting
> rid of the residual of last summer's Dialogue via email was when I
> attended the Saturday evening series of concerts. I skip the first
> two, and only say a few words about the last one: Andrew Hill. Yes.
> Andrew Hill, he was the man, who "did it" for me. It was already
> after mid-night when the band started, and the music did not make any
> sense to me. Actually, I expected it to be traditional, ordinary
> jazz, but no, it sounded like nonsense. It was chaos. Every artist
> was playing his "own" thing, not listening to one another. For a
> moment I considered walking away, as I was already tired. But then,
> as I listened to their playing more and more, I stopped, because I
> begand to "hear" something in it, the music began somehow to make
> "sense" to me, at a deeper level. Maybe it was "order," - order out
> of chaos. Emerging order. And I stayed. It was Blue Note jazz, in
> its purest form. (This I learned much later.)
>
> So, to the final countdown. I was ready to "take off" on Sunday
> evening when the final jam session began. I had high expectations
> about this, because the 'leader' would be Raoul Bj?rkenheim, the
> leading (jazz) guitarist in this country (although living mostly in
> N.Y. these days). He plays great blues. Here are (I think most of
> the) players of the jam session:
>
> http://www.tampere.fi/musicfestivals/jazz.htm
>
> (See also http://www.tampere.fi/musicfestivals/jazz/artists/raoul.htm )
>
> And what ensued, I can't really describe, put into words. Nearly
> three hours of free improvisation, just --- crazy ... Crazy and very
> strange. It was order beyond order, beyond everything, maybe ten
> artists on the stage. Massive sound, overwheliming, enfolding,
> unfolding noise. Order out of sound, polyphony, space. Mind-washing
> experience; purifying debris out of my system of the "TAS". I am
> referring to Dialogue now, because, strange enough, most of the time I
> was somehow "thinking" at some level of the Dialogue from last summer,
> and how I was being purified from it, leaving it behind, dying to it,
> getting rid of it. This just happended, I could not help it. That's
> why I am telling you this.
>
>
>
> Matti
>
>
> -
>
>
> Lainaus Susan Clemons <Susan.Joy@worldnet.att.net>:
>
>> When it comes to giving a description of and an introduction to
>> dialogue I happened across a link to one of the first introductions
>> I found when I was researcyhing dialogue. I still think it's one of
>> the best I've ever seen. I thought it might help you with your own
>> thoughts on this Don. Here's a link:
>>
>> http://www.therapycorner.com/community_dialogue.htm
>>
>> Susan
>
From lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com Sun Nov 19 05:42:03 2006
From: lynne at lifedirectionscoach.com (Lynne Tolk)
Date: Mon Nov 20 07:47:43 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
In-Reply-To: <007f01c70b7e$324b02b0$1d53153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <C1853CBB.8104%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
DonL,
(The last post I read was a response to one of yours, so everyone has not
rejected you!) And I was going to, just haven?t had time to think (& I
often have trouble both with time and with thinking!) I tended to agree
with Gill, that I really like self as process, feels much closer to
something real. As far as ?clever, witty & wise? - I think that if I really
believed that of myself I wouldn?t try so hard to be that, or worry so much
about not. It took me a long time to start posting to the list because I
was so afraid of showing up not smart enough to even be here. Fortunately,
I know that?s all beside the point, so I?m succeeding in dropping some of
that. I?m grateful to this group for providing me with the opportunity to
learn this.
Lynne
On 11/18/06 7:58 PM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
> Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write it out
> so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so I use the
> dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when it gets slow,
> tas provides some crazy thoughts:
>
> They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to ban
> me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet. They'll come
> and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh! What can I
> do!
>
> I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial; I
> will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools prancing,
> surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From franis_franis at juno.com Sun Nov 19 09:35:15 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Mon Nov 20 11:10:07 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
Message-ID: <20061119.005839.1508.1.franis_franis@juno.com>
Welcome back Matti!
Matti: ...Nearly
three hours of free improvisation, just --- crazy ... Crazy and very
strange. It was order beyond order, beyond everything, maybe ten
artists on the stage. Massive sound, overwheliming, enfolding,
unfolding noise. Order out of sound, polyphony, space. Mind-washing
experience; purifying debris out of my system of the "TAS". I am
referring to Dialogue now, because, strange enough, most of the time I
was somehow "thinking" at some level of the Dialogue from last summer,
and how I was being purified from it, leaving it behind, dying to it,
getting rid of it.
I once attended a similar jazz concert at the Great American Music Hall;
I think it was MCoy Tyner(drum) & Bobbi Hutchinsen, (vibes)...plus four
other recognized names I can't remember now. At the time I was studying
brazilian dance. After I listened to the music for an hour or so, I was
moved to take off the necklace of turquoise stones I was wearing as use
them as a shaker. Suddenly the music congealed for me, it went places,
perhaps because I had found my own common frame of reference. I kept it
up for awhile, changing with them - then realized I was probably causing
the stones of my necklace to crack; so I stopped. On the stage,
everything fell apart, and they pulled the music back to the ending of
the head of what they were playing.
I couldn't tell if my listening was what had brought the music together,
or if they could subliminally hear my necklace or what. I was close to
the front, over on the side, but I couldn't imagine they could hear me
through all of what they were playing. It was a fascinating speculations,
what listeners have to do with the musicians.
Franis
Franis
From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 13:26:22 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 14:32:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
References: <C1853CBB.8104%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c70bd5$f2ee6dc0$da0c153f@DL01>
Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some InsanityIt took me a long time to start posting to the list because I was so afraid of showing up not smart enough to even be here. -- Lynne
Very interesting Lynne. I had very similar thoughts at first. I believe we can thank tas for such thoughts. I bet many have the same thought.
It seems vitally important to be aware that tas is "in there" presenting logical possibility, perhaps faster than light, telling us this, that and something else. Thus the importance of attention to tas, to what tas says we are, and to differentiating the true from the false.
-- Don L
DonL,
(The last post I read was a response to one of yours, so everyone has not rejected you!) And I was going to, just haven't had time to think (& I often have trouble both with time and with thinking!) I tended to agree with Gill, that I really like self as process, feels much closer to something real. As far as "clever, witty & wise" - I think that if I really believed that of myself I wouldn't try so hard to be that, or worry so much about not. It took me a long time to start posting to the list because I was so afraid of showing up not smart enough to even be here. Fortunately, I know that's all beside the point, so I'm succeeding in dropping some of that. I'm grateful to this group for providing me with the opportunity to learn this.
Lynne
On 11/18/06 7:58 PM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write it out so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so I use the dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when it gets slow, tas provides some crazy thoughts:
They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to ban me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet. They'll come and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh! What can I do!
I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial; I will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools prancing, surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
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From Matti.Vaittinen at uta.fi Sun Nov 19 13:27:54 2006
From: Matti.Vaittinen at uta.fi (Matti Vaittinen)
Date: Mon Nov 20 14:33:54 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
In-Reply-To: <C185395A.8102%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
References: <C185395A.8102%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <20061119142754.ocff1qcrjds08c44@imp1.uta.fi>
Crap - (sorry) - I was not supposed to write here again this year,
(but continue my hibernation) ... You see, there's not enough time,
and more importantly: not enough energy. To Whatever it is we are
supposed to be doing here. I don't know... (But I'll say a few
things.) - Lynne, we are now talking partly because of me, because of
what I said about a year ago: i said there are only a few of us
talking ( - in a group which had become more a like a 'family') and
this did not fulfill the criteria of a real B Dialogue. Then someone
found out that the list could not be found by the Google, and they
tried to figure out why this was so. Finally those capable of
managing the list technicalities did something that changed things,
and now William says there are about a hundred subscribers on the
list! The list became "visible" to a larger audience. But about
Dialogue in here. It's tricky. Personally I don't think we can have
a "real" dialogue here, partly, for the reasons Owen has given
("scattered dialogue") and more importantly because we can't hear each
other. I think Don mentioned, quoting Lee Nichol, maybe, that the
Dialogue needs to develop, or have a (what was the term?) ...
container? Something that "holds" the dialogue. But you see, to have
this i n h e r e requires awful lot of work, or energy, because
talking to this forum is like, again, I don't know what would be a
good metaphor, talking here would be like going to a far away desert
and "shouting" in the wind. This is like going to space, floating in
space in a space suit, and talking to oneself, hoping that someone is
listening to you. All this writing and reading here, assimilation of
what everyone says or has said takes too much time and energy. (Also,
I don't write in my native language.) I mean suspension (because no
doubt I could chatter here as easily as anyone else.) Add to this
someone like "Kirsten" with all his crap and you have a mixture of a
salad and salad dressing which is hard to chew and digest. It's
crazy. However, strange enough, I don't deny that in all of this
there might be an underlying "order" in this mixture of polyphony of
dialogue - no, on the contraty, we might indeed have just the right
incredients (including at least some parts of what Peter has managed
to produce here, too). Common pool of meaning emerging? Maybe that
is not possible to achieve here - I say maybe, I am not denying it.
Understanding thought? Yes, that is much more likely, to understand
"thought" through the dialogue, which has no set agenda - and, that
has been my true interest in here.
Matti
Lainaus Lynne Tolk <lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>:
> Matti,
>
> Thank you for another vivid scene/experience. I am not versed in jazz, but
> I "heard" something of this epiphany, I think. What I don't understand is
> the relationship of this to last summer's postings here. I only joined last
> summer, so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm excited about the
> possibilities of dialogue as Bohm envisioned it. I'm not sure it has or can
> happen via email. I was struck by the freedom of the music you describe,
> yet with order emerging out of that seeming chaos. I can see that as having
> something to do with Bohm's vision. And I sense what went on here last
> summer as not having either that freedom or that order. Can you elaborate
> at all on what you meant?
>
> I've gotten hooked by this list. I really want to understand and to learn.
>
> Lynne
>
From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 13:40:55 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 14:47:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
References: <C1853CBB.8104%lynne@lifedirectionscoach.com>
Message-ID: <002801c70bd8$07d305a0$da0c153f@DL01>
Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some InsanityAs far as "clever, witty & wise" - I think that if I really believed that of myself I wouldn't try so hard to be that, or worry so much about not.-- Lynne
It may be, according to the ideas Bohm presents in TAS, that I am not responsible for the thoughts that present. The system presents thought just as it presents the possibility to differentiate the true and false of what it presents.
Maybe people embarrass themselves by trying to appear clever, witty & wise because tas tells them that their personal self is deficient, less than others.
For example, tas may tell people they are not very smart so if they want to be loved, have friends, etc., they had better appear as clever, witty & wise, especially with people who read QUANTUM stuff. Tas may tell us that others on this list are clever and wise and understand QUANTUM theory so that we must appear to be the same.
You think? -- Don L
From: Lynne Tolk
DonL,
(The last post I read was a response to one of yours, so everyone has not rejected you!) And I was going to, just haven't had time to think (& I often have trouble both with time and with thinking!) I tended to agree with Gill, that I really like self as process, feels much closer to something real. As far as "clever, witty & wise" - I think that if I really believed that of myself I wouldn't try so hard to be that, or worry so much about not. It took me a long time to start posting to the list because I was so afraid of showing up not smart enough to even be here. Fortunately, I know that's all beside the point, so I'm succeeding in dropping some of that. I'm grateful to this group for providing me with the opportunity to learn this.
Lynne
On 11/18/06 7:58 PM, "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net> wrote:
Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write it out so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so I use the dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when it gets slow, tas provides some crazy thoughts:
They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to ban me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet. They'll come and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh! What can I do!
I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial; I will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools prancing, surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 14:02:05 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 15:08:19 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Appearance and BEING
Message-ID: <004901c70bda$ec566710$da0c153f@DL01>
Surely it is obvious that in society, culture, we must be aware of how we appear to others. For example, if we do not appear to be efficient, we might get passed over for a raise, might not be promoted, might lose our job. If no attention is given to appearance, we the girls or guys will not choose us for mates, etc.
It seems a sub-system is operating and constantly apprises us of how we appear to others. It's mechanical, part of what TAS "tells us". If these things are not given attention, we might become lost.
Don L
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From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 14:22:05 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 15:29:01 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Real Insanity
Message-ID: <005501c70bdd$ca7b1390$da0c153f@DL01>
The thought occurs that real insanity is ignoring reason, ignoring tas and acting and pretending to be what what tas tells us we are -- without seriously questioning tas.
Maybe "real insanity" is trying to identify as a thingK, ignoring reason and acting as if you are an element within an imaginary scenario. Perhaps a very common image of insanity is someone who puts his hand inside his shirt or coat and acts and pretends he is Napoleon.
It might be just as insane to manipulate appearance, to act and pretend being a clever, witty and wise thingK. Is there a significant difference between appearance and being?
Don L
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From w at david-bohm.net Sun Nov 19 16:10:34 2006
From: w at david-bohm.net (william)
Date: Mon Nov 20 17:16:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
References: <20061119142754.ocff1qcrjds08c44@imp1.uta.fi>
Message-ID: <456073EA.000001.05624@VAIO-584793128F>
From: Matti Vaittinen
... Then someone found out that the list could not be found by the Google...
Hey, i know who you are; you are George W Bush, aren't you?
He recently said something about "the Google on the Internets"
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From joachimfaust at earthlink.net Sun Nov 19 19:11:33 2006
From: joachimfaust at earthlink.net (Joachim Faust)
Date: Mon Nov 20 20:17:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
In-Reply-To: <20061120110002.4FD8624FD2@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
References: <20061120110002.4FD8624FD2@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <1473F346-178B-475B-9764-8222D3C49241@earthlink.net>
Hi Matti,
I second Lynne: a very interesting description of your experience!
And I'd also be interested in how
is it similar to your experience on this list.
Another thing that struck me: How do you know that "every artist was
playing his 'own' thing, not listening
to one another." Are you sure about that? Is there any way you can
know? Does the emerging order, therefore,
depend only on "you" (in other words, it emerges within "you" as the
observer)?
A possible inference from this could be: it doesn't really matter
what people do (what sounds they produce
in Blue Note jazz session; what they say in a dialogue; or, what they
do in the most general sense, in a group, a
society, etc.), because there will be someone who listens (or looks)
hard enough to notice the order emerging out of chaos.
Just "do your thing," and everything else will take care of itself.
I'm curious, if this is so....
Joachim
On 20.11.2006, at 05:00, bohm_dialogue-request@david-bohm.org wrote:
Matti,
Thank you for another vivid scene/experience. I am not versed in
jazz, but
I "heard" something of this epiphany, I think. What I don't
understand is
the relationship of this to last summer's postings here. I only
joined last
summer, so I have nothing to compare it to. I'm excited about the
possibilities of dialogue as Bohm envisioned it. I'm not sure it has
or can
happen via email. I was struck by the freedom of the music you
describe,
yet with order emerging out of that seeming chaos. I can see that as
having
something to do with Bohm's vision. And I sense what went on here last
summer as not having either that freedom or that order. Can you
elaborate
at all on what you meant?
I've gotten hooked by this list. I really want to understand and to
learn.
Lynne
> It was chaos. Every artist was playing his "own" thing, not
> listening to one another. For a moment I considered walking away,
> as I was already tired. But then, as I listened to their playing
> more and more, I stopped, because I begand to "hear" something in
> it, the music began somehow to make "sense" to me, at a deeper
> level. Maybe it was "order," - order out of chaos. Emerging
> order. And I stayed. It was Blue Note jazz, in its purest form.
> (This I learned much later.)
Joachim Faust
joachimfaust@earthlink.net
From earthsky at tiscali.co.uk Sun Nov 19 19:26:43 2006
From: earthsky at tiscali.co.uk (earthsky@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Mon Nov 20 20:32:59 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
In-Reply-To: <007f01c70b7e$324b02b0$1d53153f@DL01>
Message-ID: <453D78D00003FFA8@mail-1-uk.mail.tiscali.sys>
I like people who are paranoid!!
Gill
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:58:17 -0500
>From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>
>
>Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write
it
>out so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so
>I use the dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when
>it gets slow, tas provides some crazy thoughts:
>
>They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to
>ban me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet. They'll
>come and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh!
What
>can I do!
>
>I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial;
>I will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools prancing,
>surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Unlimited Broadband with FREE weekend calls only 12.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
From isaaccherian at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 20:06:27 2006
From: isaaccherian at gmail.com (Isaac Cherian)
Date: Mon Nov 20 21:12:31 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] i am extremly interested
Message-ID: <daac0c7c0611191106m4a7dfb88ld422888c9f2dfee6@mail.gmail.com>
from Isaac Cherian
From admin at david-bohm.net Sun Nov 19 20:57:32 2006
From: admin at david-bohm.net (dialogue-admin)
Date: Mon Nov 20 22:04:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] i am extremly interested
References: <daac0c7c0611191106m4a7dfb88ld422888c9f2dfee6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4560B72C.000008.05624@VAIO-584793128F>
If you like, check the archive for the last week or so.
It will give you an idea of what has been going and it might be helpful to
jump in if you feel like it.
-------Original Message-------
From: Isaac Cherian
Date: 19.11.2006 20:06:32
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] i am extremly interested
from Isaac Cherian
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From w at david-bohm.net Sun Nov 19 21:06:18 2006
From: w at david-bohm.net (william)
Date: Mon Nov 20 22:12:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Defining and Introduction to Dialogue
References: <1473F346-178B-475B-9764-8222D3C49241@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <4560B93A.00000A.05624@VAIO-584793128F>
From: Joachim Faust
>...
>A possible inference from this could be: it doesn't really
>matter what people do (what sounds they produce
>in Blue Note jazz session; what they say in a dialogue; or,
>what they do in the most general sense, in a group, a
>society, etc.), because there will be someone who listens
>(or looks) hard enough to notice the order emerging out
>of chaos...
Sometimes I wonder...
Do we notice the order, or do we create the order?
Does the order emerge from the chaos, or does it emerge from the listening?
Who is the artist, the player or the listener?
william
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From donlay at gte.net Sun Nov 19 21:57:02 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Mon Nov 20 23:03:12 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
References: <453D78D00003FFA8@mail-1-uk.mail.tiscali.sys>
Message-ID: <010c01c70c1d$4618be00$da0c153f@DL01>
I like people who are paranoid!! -- Gill
Then I'd say you can fit in well here. Many people are afraid of paranoids,
perhaps fearing their hidden paranoia. I'd say it takes courage to face it.
What say you? -- Don L
>-- Original Message --
>Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2006 20:58:17 -0500
>From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Some Insanity
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>
>
>Sometimes I become very involved in trying to work something out, write
it
>out so that it seems reasonable, rational. It helps to write it out, so
>I use the dialogue list to kind of work things out, or try to. Then when
>it gets slow, tas provides some crazy thoughts:
>
>They don't like me. They have discovered how crazy I am and are going to
>ban me, not only from the dialogue list but from the whole internet.
>They'll
>come and get my internet machines and then I'll be all alone. Oh, oh!
What
>can I do!
>
>I will post and tell them I will never again write anything controversial;
>I will only post some mushy shit praising some of the outright fools
>prancing,
>surfing through cyber space. Oh, oh, oh! What shall I do. -- dbl
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Unlimited Broadband with FREE weekend calls only 12.99!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________