From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 20 03:27:41 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sat Oct 21 04:28:28 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] punish people
Message-ID: <20061019.212741.2116.10.ae.dropper@juno.com>
"You have to see that your will is entirely created out of the thought of
what is necessary and possible. This has tremendous implications,
because, for example, we in the western world have a long tradition of
saying the will is free. You choose everything you will to do. Therefore
people have to be punished very badly when they do the wrong thing. It's
even part of the Christian tradition to say that Adam willfully chose
evil, and therefore mankind had original sin, and that people have to be
punished for it. This approach has been followed for thousands of years,
but it doesn't do any good, obviously. It's like trying to turn back the
waves at the shore." DB, Knowledge as Endarkenment, p. 33.
Bohm had lots to say about "will" peppered throughout his stuff,
as thoughts of "Free Will" are intimately related to "Self Image."
pat
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 11:36:01 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Sat Oct 21 12:35:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] punish people
In-Reply-To: <20061019.212741.2116.10.ae.dropper@juno.com>
References: <20061019.212741.2116.10.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <4977134F-F4AB-4341-82D0-E622E37013ED@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
On 20 Oct 2006, at 02:27, ae.dropper@juno.com wrote:
> You have to see that your will is entirely created out of the
> thought of what is necessary and possible. Bohm
It is worth parsing this sentence to get its real meaning. Otherwise
it seems to say that any act of will or choice is caused by something
called a thought of necessity which does not emerge because of some
will or choice, but rather from something unnamed.
Now any act that you or anyone performs is obviously the result of a
process that includes a thought about what needs to be done and the
necessity - felt or conceived - of actually doing it which would
involve obviously the possibility of doing it.
I cannot imagine anyone imagining that their choices come to them on
the wings of some angel of meaning, or of some independent force of
necessity, separate from their thoughts of necessity and possibility.
The question that must be asked here is, Is a thought of necessity,
necessarily mistaken or is the mistake (for those of us who are able
to admit to making mistakes) not to inquire deeply enough into the
meaning of the necessity?
don
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Fri Oct 20 16:00:56 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sat Oct 21 17:01:01 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Ultimate, non ultimate
In-Reply-To: <20061021100002.1AB6C24070@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF8D7CE21C.71A01931-ON8525720D.0047AEE0-8525720D.004CFD8A@dialogos.com>
Rodger__ in answer to:
Don L: Do you not recognize that homo-saps are altered by language,
Rodger: BY ALTERED DO YOU MEAN DIFFERENT? HAVE YOU EVER SPENT MUCH TIME IN
THE WILD, LISTENED TO HOW ANIMALS TELL EACH OTHER OF THE COMINGS AND GOINGS
OF PREDATORS AND FRIENDLY CRITTERS -- ALL THE DIFFERENT SOUNDS THEY USE --
WHICH ANIMALS NOTIFY THE COMMUNITY OF WHICH VISITORS OR DANGERS ETC.?
TO ME, ANIMAL SOUNDS QUALIFY AS LANGUAGE. HUMANS SELDOM UNDERSTAND OR
RECOGNIZE ANIMAL LANGUAGE, BUT ANIMALS OFTEN COMPREHEND A RANGE OF
WORDS.ALTHO ANIMALS TEND TO CONFUSE EASILY WHEN HUMANS EXPRESS WORDS
NEUROTICALLY.
I THINK IT IS NOT SO MUCH A CLEAR LINE OF -WE SPEAK & ANIMALS DONT- AS A
SPECIES GRADIENT; HOW MUCH, WHAT KIND.
DON L: (homo-saps) are altered by written laws that most people say are
unnatural?
rodger: IS THAT LIKE MOST PEOPLE SAYING WE WOULD FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE
FLAT EARTH? AN EARTH WHICH WE ALL KNOW IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE?
Don L: Do you see how human being is different from all other creatures? --
dbl
rodger: MOSTLY NO. MOTHERS AND BABIES CALL OUT FOR EACH OTHER WHEN CRISIS
-OR FARMING- SEPARATES THEM. THE BASIC BEHAVIORAL, EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE
SEEMS TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. EXCEPT FOR HOW HUMANS ADVANCED IN AN AREA
OF BRAIN EVOLUTION.
GENERALLY IT SEEMS TO ME THAT PEOPLE ARE AT A LOSS AS TO WHAT TO MAKE OF
THIS ADVANCE, SO THEY DRAW UP CONCLUSSIONS ABOUT IT._R
.
.
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:39:08 -0400
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Ultimate, non ultimate
statements
.
Don L: Do you not recognize that homo-saps are altered by language, by
written laws that most people say are unnatural? Do you not see something
unnatural about human being? Do you see how human being is different from
all other creatures? -- dbl
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Fri Oct 20 16:10:46 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sat Oct 21 17:10:35 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Issue
In-Reply-To: <20061021100002.1AB6C24070@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF60F579E7.5825B1F0-ON8525720D.004D3AC2-8525720D.004DE406@dialogos.com>
Rodger __I know what you mean. For me peace comes with an acknowledgement
of what I honestly dont know. I dont mean an admitance of frustration over
not knowing something I really would like to know.
I mean a surrendering to BEING in full awareness that somedays, some
patterns of behavior, are trickier than others._R
.
.
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:11:50 -0400
From: "Dorothy Stulberg" <DStulberg@msw-law.com>
Subject: RE: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Bohm_Dialogue Digest, Vol 20, Issue
20
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D1695D009F@msw2k.msw.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was really thinking about how to remain in peace while still
acknowledgeing, respecting, enjoying multiple ways of being. D
.
.
___
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From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 20 17:28:56 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sat Oct 21 18:30:06 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
Message-ID: <20061020.112857.2116.11.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because we
had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do not
show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it by
constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the material
to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers said.
I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or no
one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this point
that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting for
11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the group,
invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever attended
the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets people
coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups [consistently].
Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out maybe
20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to meet?"
So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on the
third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and talk
about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country Deli
kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a nice
space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
pat
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 20 17:45:33 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sat Oct 21 18:45:22 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
In-Reply-To: <20061020.112857.2116.11.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <C15E675D.399F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Morning, Pat - thank you for more insights. I've been silent because I'm
changing internet service, with all the attendant nightmares! A few more
adjustments, and I'll be vocal again. I may have to change from Earthlink
and use a new address which will mean setting up a new email address for
this group. We'll see. Best, k
PS - your poem was right on!
On 10/20/06 11:28 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
> Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because we
> had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
> dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do not
> show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it by
> constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the material
> to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
> dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers said.
> I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or no
> one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this point
> that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
>
> Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting for
> 11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
> depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the group,
> invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever attended
> the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets people
> coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
>
> I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
> homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups [consistently].
> Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
> want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
> like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
> work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
>
> The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out maybe
> 20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to meet?"
> So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on the
> third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and talk
> about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country Deli
> kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
> across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
> space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a nice
> space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
> waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
>
> pat
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From ae.dropper at juno.com Fri Oct 20 18:04:35 2006
From: ae.dropper at juno.com (ae.dropper@juno.com)
Date: Sat Oct 21 19:05:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Issue
Message-ID: <20061020.120448.2116.15.ae.dropper@juno.com>
I was really thinking about how to remain in peace while still
acknowledgeing, respecting, enjoying multiple ways of being. D
Instead of "multiple" go for "infinite." Welcome all. Enjoy for that
moment. Let it [all] pass through. Be transparent. Be open. Not just in
the "front" but in the "back" as well. It is only thought which will try
to decide which to "keep" or "hold" (as "mine), and which to "let go" (as
"not mine"). And what is "thought" but a "ripple" on the "sea" of "what I
really am" which is 'transparency' itself.
pat
On Fri, 20 Oct 2006 10:10:46 -0400 Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com writes:
Rodger __I know what you mean. For me peace comes with an acknowledgement
of what I honestly dont know. I dont mean an admitance of frustration
over not knowing something I really would like to know.
I mean a surrendering to BEING in full awareness that somedays, some
patterns of behavior, are trickier than others._R
.
.
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 11:11:50 -0400
From: "Dorothy Stulberg" <DStulberg@msw-law.com>
Subject: RE: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Bohm_Dialogue Digest, Vol 20, Issue
20
To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D1695D009F@msw2k.msw.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was really thinking about how to remain in peace while still
acknowledgeing, respecting, enjoying multiple ways of being. D
.
.
___
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From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Fri Oct 20 18:15:41 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Sat Oct 21 19:15:25 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Subject: Issue
In-Reply-To: <20061020.120448.2116.15.ae.dropper@juno.com>
References: <20061020.120448.2116.15.ae.dropper@juno.com>
Message-ID: <985CE654-91D3-4A41-93EB-5888E82DB29E@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
On 20 Oct 2006, at 17:04, ae.dropper@juno.com wrote:
> And what is "thought" but a "ripple" on the "sea" of "what I really
> am" which is 'transparency' itself.
Sounds really big. Not so sure about the kinky bit though. Actually,
what does this image mean? I
mean, "the "sea" of what I really am" seems vast, deep, inclusive,
dark but not only dark, inviting,
womblike. But transparency has a different feel - delicate,
ephemeral, fleeting, vulnerable.
More like doplets than a "sea". But am I that? Are you?
don
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From benschcoe at hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 20:07:46 2006
From: benschcoe at hotmail.com (Regina Bensch-Coe)
Date: Sat Oct 21 21:07:31 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
In-Reply-To: <C15E675D.399F%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY123-F15B68E36F723086F15ABABB70D0@phx.gbl>
Kathryn,
Before I joined this group six months ago, I tried to find a dialogue group
in NYC. I found a few that were affiliated with Krishnamurti’s work.
However, I never had a chance to attend because the meeting dates did not
match my NYC visit dates.
I just looked at the Krishnamurti website and six NYC people are looking for
a dialogue connection. Here is the URL:
http://www.kfa.org/map/db_manual_listing.php
Regina
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:45:33 -0400
>
>Morning, Pat - thank you for more insights. I've been silent because I'm
>changing internet service, with all the attendant nightmares! A few more
>adjustments, and I'll be vocal again. I may have to change from Earthlink
>and use a new address which will mean setting up a new email address for
>this group. We'll see. Best, k
>
>PS - your poem was right on!
>
>
>On 10/20/06 11:28 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because we
> > had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
> > dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do not
> > show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it
>by
> > constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the material
> > to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
> > dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers said.
> > I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or no
> > one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this point
> > that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
> >
> > Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting
>for
> > 11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
> > depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the group,
> > invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever attended
> > the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets people
> > coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
> >
> > I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
> > homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups [consistently].
> > Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
> > want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
> > like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
> > work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
> >
> > The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out maybe
> > 20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to meet?"
> > So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on
>the
> > third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and talk
> > about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country Deli
> > kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
> > across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
> > space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a nice
> > space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
> > waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
> >
> > pat
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 20 20:14:32 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sat Oct 21 21:14:13 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F15B68E36F723086F15ABABB70D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C15E8A48.39A5%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Thank you. I'm still dealing with switching my internet service smoothly.
Will follow up ASAP. If you visit NYC, let's have a cup of coffee! k
On 10/20/06 2:07 PM, "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Kathryn,
>
> Before I joined this group six months ago, I tried to find a dialogue group
> in NYC. I found a few that were affiliated with Krishnamurti?s work.
> However, I never had a chance to attend because the meeting dates did not
> match my NYC visit dates.
>
> I just looked at the Krishnamurti website and six NYC people are looking for
> a dialogue connection. Here is the URL:
>
> http://www.kfa.org/map/db_manual_listing.php
>
>
> Regina
>
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
>> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:45:33 -0400
>>
>> Morning, Pat - thank you for more insights. I've been silent because I'm
>> changing internet service, with all the attendant nightmares! A few more
>> adjustments, and I'll be vocal again. I may have to change from Earthlink
>> and use a new address which will mean setting up a new email address for
>> this group. We'll see. Best, k
>>
>> PS - your poem was right on!
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/06 11:28 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because we
>>> had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
>>> dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do not
>>> show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it
>> by
>>> constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the material
>>> to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
>>> dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers said.
>>> I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or no
>>> one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this point
>>> that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
>>>
>>> Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting
>> for
>>> 11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
>>> depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the group,
>>> invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever attended
>>> the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets people
>>> coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
>>>
>>> I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
>>> homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups [consistently].
>>> Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
>>> want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
>>> like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
>>> work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
>>>
>>> The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out maybe
>>> 20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to meet?"
>>> So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on
>> the
>>> third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and talk
>>> about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country Deli
>>> kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
>>> across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
>>> space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a nice
>>> space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
>>> waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
>>>
>>> pat
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
> https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From benschcoe at hotmail.com Fri Oct 20 20:45:00 2006
From: benschcoe at hotmail.com (Regina Bensch-Coe)
Date: Sat Oct 21 21:44:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
In-Reply-To: <C15E8A48.39A5%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BAY123-F1714D7E50C2307D09EF41CB70D0@phx.gbl>
Yes, sounds good!
Regina
>From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:14:32 -0400
>
>Thank you. I'm still dealing with switching my internet service smoothly.
>Will follow up ASAP. If you visit NYC, let's have a cup of coffee! k
>
>
>On 10/20/06 2:07 PM, "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Kathryn,
> >
> > Before I joined this group six months ago, I tried to find a dialogue
>group
> > in NYC. I found a few that were affiliated with Krishnamurti‚s work.
> > However, I never had a chance to attend because the meeting dates did
>not
> > match my NYC visit dates.
> >
> > I just looked at the Krishnamurti website and six NYC people are looking
>for
> > a dialogue connection. Here is the URL:
> >
> > http://www.kfa.org/map/db_manual_listing.php
> >
> >
> > Regina
> >
> >
> >> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
> >> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
> >> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:45:33 -0400
> >>
> >> Morning, Pat - thank you for more insights. I've been silent because
>I'm
> >> changing internet service, with all the attendant nightmares! A few
>more
> >> adjustments, and I'll be vocal again. I may have to change from
>Earthlink
> >> and use a new address which will mean setting up a new email address
>for
> >> this group. We'll see. Best, k
> >>
> >> PS - your poem was right on!
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/20/06 11:28 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com>
>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because
>we
> >>> had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
> >>> dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do
>not
> >>> show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it
> >> by
> >>> constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the
>material
> >>> to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
> >>> dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers
>said.
> >>> I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or
>no
> >>> one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this
>point
> >>> that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
> >>>
> >>> Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting
> >> for
> >>> 11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
> >>> depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the
>group,
> >>> invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever
>attended
> >>> the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets
>people
> >>> coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
> >>>
> >>> I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
> >>> homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups
>[consistently].
> >>> Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
> >>> want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
> >>> like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
> >>> work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
> >>>
> >>> The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out
>maybe
> >>> 20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to
>meet?"
> >>> So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on
> >> the
> >>> third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and
>talk
> >>> about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country
>Deli
> >>> kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
> >>> across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
> >>> space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a
>nice
> >>> space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
> >>> waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
> >>>
> >>> pat
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> info:
> >>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>>
> >>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> dialogue facilitator:
> >>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> info:
> >> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> dialogue facilitator:
> >> facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> Administrator of the mailing list:
> >> admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
> > https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > info:
> > www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> > post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> > dialogue facilitator:
> > facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> > Administrator of the mailing list:
> > admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
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From tangykatt at earthlink.net Fri Oct 20 20:48:42 2006
From: tangykatt at earthlink.net (Kathryn Arizmendi)
Date: Sat Oct 21 21:48:26 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
In-Reply-To: <BAY123-F1714D7E50C2307D09EF41CB70D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C15E924A.39AA%tangykatt@earthlink.net>
If anybody ever doubted the interconnectedness of all things - just let them
try changing internet service! k
On 10/20/06 2:45 PM, "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, sounds good!
>
> Regina
>
>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
>> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:14:32 -0400
>>
>> Thank you. I'm still dealing with switching my internet service smoothly.
>> Will follow up ASAP. If you visit NYC, let's have a cup of coffee! k
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/06 2:07 PM, "Regina Bensch-Coe" <benschcoe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Kathryn,
>>>
>>> Before I joined this group six months ago, I tried to find a dialogue
>> group
>>> in NYC. I found a few that were affiliated with Krishnamurti???s work.
>>> However, I never had a chance to attend because the meeting dates did
>> not
>>> match my NYC visit dates.
>>>
>>> I just looked at the Krishnamurti website and six NYC people are looking
>> for
>>> a dialogue connection. Here is the URL:
>>>
>>> http://www.kfa.org/map/db_manual_listing.php
>>>
>>>
>>> Regina
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Kathryn Arizmendi <tangykatt@earthlink.net>
>>>> Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>>>> To: <bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] dialogue groups
>>>> Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 11:45:33 -0400
>>>>
>>>> Morning, Pat - thank you for more insights. I've been silent because
>> I'm
>>>> changing internet service, with all the attendant nightmares! A few
>> more
>>>> adjustments, and I'll be vocal again. I may have to change from
>> Earthlink
>>>> and use a new address which will mean setting up a new email address
>> for
>>>> this group. We'll see. Best, k
>>>>
>>>> PS - your poem was right on!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/06 11:28 AM, "ae.dropper@juno.com" <ae.dropper@juno.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Katherine, the reason why those dialogue groups "fizzled" was because
>> we
>>>>> had no inflow of new people. Most people who come more than once to a
>>>>> dialogue group, do not come more than several times, and regulars do
>> not
>>>>> show up every time, so you need a way to bring new people in. I did it
>>>> by
>>>>> constantly posting flyers, taking phone calls, sending out the
>> material
>>>>> to read, etc,. But the groups I was working with later on starting new
>>>>> dialogue groups in other towns, could not agree on what the flyers
>> said.
>>>>> I kept making them and showing them and someone wouldn't like it - or
>> no
>>>>> one wanted their phone number on it (but me) - see I felt at this
>> point
>>>>> that I didn't want to do this thing alone anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another thing that works for our monthly group (that has been meeting
>>>> for
>>>>> 11 years -which sometimes gets 4 or 6 people and sometimes gets 19,
>>>>> depending mostly on whether the physics professor who started the
>> group,
>>>>> invites his current new students) is that everyone who has ever
>> attended
>>>>> the group once, gets an e-mail invitation every month. This gets
>> people
>>>>> coming on occasion, that you haven't seen for 6 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also attend other (non bohm) "talking circles" that meet in people's
>>>>> homes on an alternating basis. These are smaller groups
>> [consistently].
>>>>> Don't rule that out. Some people don't want to offer their home [don't
>>>>> want to vacuum, screaming grandchildren, sullen spouse, privacy freaks
>>>>> like me] but that's ok. I would say, find some people who like bohm's
>>>>> work, tell them what you want to do, and take it from there.
>>>>>
>>>>> The way our first meeting happened was that after I had given out
>> maybe
>>>>> 20 or 30 'packets' people started asking me "when are we going to
>> meet?"
>>>>> So I sent everyone a letter saying that I would be at Country Deli on
>>>> the
>>>>> third floor on two consecutive Sundays if anyone wanted to come and
>> talk
>>>>> about a dialogue group. Maybe 8 people showed up each time. Country
>> Deli
>>>>> kicked us out after the second meeting. I begged the bookstore owners
>>>>> across the street to use their third floor for the third meeting. Got
>>>>> space at a dingy church for the next two meetings and finally got a
>> nice
>>>>> space at another church for the rest of our time together. That church
>>>>> waived their fee. Said to "pass the hat."
>>>>>
>>>>> pat
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> info:
>>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>>
>>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> info:
>>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>>
>>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Use your PC to make calls at very low rates
>>> https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> info:
>>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>>
>>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> dialogue facilitator:
>>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://space
> s.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From donlay at gte.net Fri Oct 20 21:26:49 2006
From: donlay at gte.net (Don Lay)
Date: Sun Oct 22 01:41:40 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Ultimate, non ultimate
References: <OF8D7CE21C.71A01931-ON8525720D.0047AEE0-8525720D.004CFD8A@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <000201c6f498$e7d65eb0$6801a8c0@your0548c161e1>
Don L: Do you see how human being is different from all other creatures? -- dbl
rodger: MOSTLY NO. MOTHERS AND BABIES CALL OUT FOR EACH OTHER WHEN CRISIS -OR FARMING- SEPARATES THEM. THE BASIC BEHAVIORAL, EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE SEEMS TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. EXCEPT FOR HOW HUMANS ADVANCED IN AN AREA OF BRAIN EVOLUTION.
Don L: Ever see another creature in traffic court; court for nonpayment of child-support; traffric fines? In school studying for finals? In line for flu shots?
----- Original Message -----
From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Ultimate, non ultimate
Rodger__ in answer to:
Don L: Do you not recognize that homo-saps are altered by language,
Rodger: BY ALTERED DO YOU MEAN DIFFERENT? HAVE YOU EVER SPENT MUCH TIME IN THE WILD, LISTENED TO HOW ANIMALS TELL EACH OTHER OF THE COMINGS AND GOINGS OF PREDATORS AND FRIENDLY CRITTERS -- ALL THE DIFFERENT SOUNDS THEY USE -- WHICH ANIMALS NOTIFY THE COMMUNITY OF WHICH VISITORS OR DANGERS ETC.?
TO ME, ANIMAL SOUNDS QUALIFY AS LANGUAGE. HUMANS SELDOM UNDERSTAND OR RECOGNIZE ANIMAL LANGUAGE, BUT ANIMALS OFTEN COMPREHEND A RANGE OF WORDS.ALTHO ANIMALS TEND TO CONFUSE EASILY WHEN HUMANS EXPRESS WORDS NEUROTICALLY.
I THINK IT IS NOT SO MUCH A CLEAR LINE OF -WE SPEAK & ANIMALS DONT- AS A SPECIES GRADIENT; HOW MUCH, WHAT KIND.
DON L: (homo-saps) are altered by written laws that most people say are unnatural?
rodger: IS THAT LIKE MOST PEOPLE SAYING WE WOULD FALL OFF THE EDGE OF THE FLAT EARTH? AN EARTH WHICH WE ALL KNOW IS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE?
Don L: Do you see how human being is different from all other creatures? -- dbl
rodger: MOSTLY NO. MOTHERS AND BABIES CALL OUT FOR EACH OTHER WHEN CRISIS -OR FARMING- SEPARATES THEM. THE BASIC BEHAVIORAL, EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE SEEMS TO BE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. EXCEPT FOR HOW HUMANS ADVANCED IN AN AREA OF BRAIN EVOLUTION.
GENERALLY IT SEEMS TO ME THAT PEOPLE ARE AT A LOSS AS TO WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS ADVANCE, SO THEY DRAW UP CONCLUSSIONS ABOUT IT._R
.
.
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2006 00:39:08 -0400
From: "Don Lay" <donlay@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] Ultimate, non ultimate
statements
.
Don L: Do you not recognize that homo-saps are altered by language, by written laws that most people say are unnatural? Do you not see something unnatural about human being? Do you see how human being is different from all other creatures? -- dbl
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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