From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Thu Sep 21 00:08:27 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Fri Sep 22 01:01:56 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Dialogue a proposal
In-Reply-To: <20060921100003.4C62B22F6F@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OF88220EF9.5DBE164B-ON852571EF.0077A12E-852571EF.00799FCA@dialogos.com>
Rodger __There are several statements in -DIALOGUE, A PROPOSAL 1991, by D
Bohm, D Factor, P Garrett- which answer some questions that Franis raised
regarding the dialogue group experience she was having. I thought the
statements were refreshing to see again.
pg 20-- The spirit of Dialogue is one of free play, a sort of collective
dance of the mind that, nevertheless has immense power and reveals coherent
purpose.
pg 14--Suspension involves exposing your reactions, impulses, feelings and
opinions in such a way that they can be seen and felt within your own
psyche and also be reflected back by others in the group.
pg 6 -- Because the nature of Dialogue is exploratory its meaning and its
methods continue to unfold. No firm rules can be laid down for conducting a
Dialogue because its essence is learning -- not as the result of consuming
a body of information or doctrine imparted by authority, nor as a means of
examining or criticizing a particular theory or programme, but rather as
part of an unfolding process of creative participation between peers. END
_R
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 00:20:04 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Fri Sep 22 01:13:30 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20060920213832.39277.qmail@web55009.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F19D496071316915573269CA8230@phx.gbl>
Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by variability
in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of
activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused than
extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are
more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is
such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as
predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social
engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Hi Kristen -
>
> Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
>of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
>
> Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
>other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization, and
>as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this area.
>In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once in
>the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant with
>respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
>homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
>conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive.
>Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the
>larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those
>involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices
>cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient
>intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may
>ultimately one day be forced to decide
> between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct) and
>our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
>perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
>anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because it
>could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be
>asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks being
>the major operative.
>
> Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
>device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
>Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
>battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
>all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally in
>a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
>assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
>used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
>situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
>synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed
>to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character of
>the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting
>point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be
>capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said that
>it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather than
>the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
>ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
>about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
>another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
>
> -- Zoe
>
>kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Dear habituated Susbcribers
>
>The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Master’s
>thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
>shift", meaning that a group’s decisions are riskier than the average of
>the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery of
>the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive, especially
>since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other researchers
>suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
>leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
>conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
>counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around the
>risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception to
>the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
>become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes that
>became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term the
>overall phenomenon "group polarization".
>
>
>
>Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> >From: "kirsten schneide"
> >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Oh William, I like your
> >
> >Attitude/s
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> >
> >PS:
> >
> >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that causes
> >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to
>focus
> >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> >
> >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has caused
> >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
> >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> >
> >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
> >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who they
> >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
> >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
> >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while offering
>an
> >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> >
> >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
>scientists
> >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
> >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol :
> >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size scales,
> >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification of
> >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> >
> >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
>Planck
> >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
> >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space
>and
> >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> >insignificance.
> >
> >Gute Nacht!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> >>
> >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> >>
> >>William
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> >Spaces
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
From benschcoe at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 00:47:16 2006
From: benschcoe at hotmail.com (Regina Bensch-Coe)
Date: Fri Sep 22 01:40:47 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: about depression
In-Reply-To: <OF2F7C31BE.4935B470-ON852571EE.00503A17-852571EE.0053C93A@dialogos.com>
Message-ID: <BAY123-F343F9B458E2DF8524A4914B7230@phx.gbl>
It has never occurred to me that his depression might have had psychological
reasons, although he was very upset about the Iraq war (the first one).
(william)
This article describes a brilliant and intuitive person, who, like many,
went through some seriously depressing politics -- and then dared to
continue to pursue his curiosities about such things as, dialogue._R
——
I’m not sure where I read or heard that creativity and madness come from the
same source. I think it was Krishnamurti who said it to Bohm in one of their
videos.
Do anyone know about the relationship between creativity and madness?
Regina
>From: Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: about depression
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:15:10 -0400
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Rodger __Saral Bohm gave me a copy of the -Sunday Interview, San Francisco
>Chronicle, Aug 17, 1997. Stephen Schartz interviews Jack Sarfatti about
>recent change in science and philosophy. Sarfatti specifically mentions
>David Bohm in the interview. Quote;
>
>Sarfatti: The figure with the most importance for this debate right now is
>the person Einstein himself considered his heir, David Bohm, who died in
>1992.
>
>Bohm is a remarkable personality. He started out at Berkeley with J. Robert
>Oppenheimer, in the 1940s. Bohm was one of those who was accused of being
>involved with the Soviets -- he was not allowed to work at Los Alamos,
>where the atomic bomb was created.
>
>Bohm took the fall for Oppenheimer, to protect Oppenheimer, and left the
>country -USA- in order not to have to testify. He went to Brazil and then
>Israel. I believe Oppenheimer betrayed Bohm. Oppenheimer sacrificed Bohm to
>protect himself.
>
>Bohm was hired after the war, as a young assistant professor at Princeton.
>And he was assigned to teach the course in quantum theory, very much under
>the influence of Bohr. In his lectures, Bohm was a very thorough person. He
>really was questing, trying to understand the universe and quantum theory
>philosophically.
>
>He always proceeded in a clear intuitive way. He was trying to cut through
>the abstract mathematics and to make contact with reality. His lecture
>notes became his book -Quantum Theory-.
>
>Having finished writing his book, Bohm was walking around campus, and he
>ran into Einstein. Einstein had read the book, and they spent a weekend of
>intense discussions.
>
>Bohm had developed, whats called the pilot wave theory, based on Einsteins
>ideas. The idea was that Bohrs quantum theory was very accurate, and you
>can do all kinds of practical and important technological things with it.
>But it is leaving something essential out.
>
>Bohm showed that a quantum pattern of active information is fundamental to
>the universe. He deals with the parts of the universe and the whole of the
>universe.
>
>END QUOTE
>
>This article describes a brilliant and intuitive person, who, like many,
>went through some seriously depressing politics -- and then dared to
>continue to pursue his curiosities about such things as, dialogue._R
>.
>.
>
>William writes:
>
> >Yes, he had a very bad blood circulation due to his heart condition. He
> >always looked very pale in his face as if he was about to collapse. I
> >always
> >thought that his depression was caused by the chemistry in the brain as a
> >result of the poor blood circulation. It has never occurred to me that
>his
> >depression might have had psychological reasons, although he was very
>upset
> >about the Iraq war (the first one).
> >
> >william
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Thu Sep 21 14:17:11 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Fri Sep 22 15:10:57 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Quotation
In-Reply-To: <C136E8AD.9565%earthsky@tiscali.co.uk>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F246604124A70F4DC69621EA8200@phx.gbl>
Dear Don
'snt that
Terror
How we all make
A living
Off
(ps: so what's the bigfuckingdeal ?;)
Love & Lifesavings, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>I just ran across this quotation and I felt compelled to share it around
>
>No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices.
>--Edward R. Murrow
>
>don
>
_________________________________________________________________
Try the new Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM=WLMTAG
From donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk Thu Sep 21 14:19:15 2006
From: donfactor at donfactor.demon.co.uk (Don Factor)
Date: Fri Sep 22 15:12:47 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F19D496071316915573269CA8230@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY107-F19D496071316915573269CA8230@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D59012E4-E84F-408B-BD0B-EFA6688A33BB@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
I find Eysenck's ideas a bit out of date. HIs distinction between
extraverts and introverts illustrates what I mean by this. Would you
call yourself an introvert or an extrovert? I would be very hard
pressed to define my own personality by either of these two extremes.
I often think of myself as an introvert, but sometimes I get a lot
pleasure and stimulation from putting myself out there in an
extroverted way. So, can anyone say which parts of my brain are the
more active in general? I would think that extrovert and introvert
could be seen as different ends of a spectrum of possible behaviours
in regard to self and others. But the parts of the brain that are
mentioned in his work do a lot of other things too. So each of us
probably slides somewhere along the line. The difficulty here
involves how would anyone be able to detect who was an introvert or
extrovert by simply testing their brain activity at a particular
time? Eysenck, like a lot of his generation, was keen to make
psychology a part of physicalist science. Hard science was
psychology's goal. Behaviourism was the dominant paradigm along with
positivism in the physical sciences. Consciousness was a meaningless
term. These days the most interesting psychologists are taking a more
organismic approach, looking at general patterns of interaction, and
such, systems thinking and process descriptions seem much more
relevant these days. Current studies of the way the brain works show
that it is even more complex and labile than was thought even
relatively recently. I mean, how might have Eysenck described a bunch
of brains working together?
don
On 20 Sep 2006, at 23:20, kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
> variability in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by
> higher levels of activity than extraverts and so are chronically
> more cortically aroused than extraverts". While it seems
> counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are more aroused than
> extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is such that
> the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
> extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~
> ~ as predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity,
> social engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
> Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> Hi Kristen -
>>
>> Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do
>> you make of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
>>
>> Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to
>> avoid each other while operating in a group raises the issue of
>> self-organization, and as such might be the major impetus in
>> following developments in this area. In particular, the works of
>> Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once in the province of
>> pure speculation now have become immediately relevant with respect
>> to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
>> homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
>> conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to
>> survive. Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic
>> devices is the larger and more serious concern in the discussion
>> about Warwick and those involved in similar research. "Pulling the
>> plug" on independent devices cannot be as simple as it appears,
>> for if the device displays sufficient intelligence and assumes a
>> diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may ultimately one day be
>> forced to decide
>> between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but
>> correct) and our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and
>> "intuitive" perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited
>> behavior not anticipated by the research, one such robot
>> "committing suicide" because it could not cope with its
>> environment. In a more complex setting, it may be asked whether a
>> "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks being the
>> major operative.
>>
>> Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not
>> confined to device implantation or automatons. Researching
>> websites on the U.S. Department of Defense's (DoD) development of
>> a simulated international battlespace. It is no secret that the
>> DoD foresees the day when not only all military systems are
>> interoperable, but can be coordinated globally in a real-time war.
>> Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for assessing
>> alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be used
>> as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
>> situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in
>> these synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That
>> is, if allowed to operate with minimal or no human intervention,
>> what of the character of the system, itself and its evolution?
>> Hence, Warwick should be a starting point for a more serious
>> discussion than the popular media seems to be capable of
>> maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
>> Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be
>> said that it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the
>> plausible, rather than the impossible. In the best case scenario,
>> Warwick, indeed has given us ample notice to humanity to concern
>> itself with the choice of thinking about ourselves and our place
>> in the universe or abnegate in favor of another consciousness. A
>> return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
>>
>> -- Zoe
>>
>> kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear habituated Susbcribers
>>
>> The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961
>> Master?s
>> thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
>> shift", meaning that a group?s decisions are riskier than the
>> average of
>> the individual decisions of members before the group met. The
>> discovery of
>> the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>> especially
>> since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>> researchers
>> suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did
>> groups,
>> leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that
>> would
>> conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
>> counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research
>> around the
>> risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case
>> exception to
>> the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however,
>> it had
>> become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many
>> attitudes that
>> became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to
>> term the
>> overall phenomenon "group polarization".
>>
>>
>>
>> Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
>> --------------------------
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>> >From: "kirsten schneide"
>> >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>> >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
>> >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Oh William, I like your
>> >
>> >Attitude/s
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Love & Dress, Kirsten
>> >
>> >PS:
>> >
>> >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation
>> that causes
>> >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe
>> and to focus
>> >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
>> >
>> >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>> caused
>> >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long
>> time
>> >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
>> >
>> >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and
>> codes of
>> >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of
>> who they
>> >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship
>> to the
>> >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
>> >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
>> offering an
>> >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
>> >
>> >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
>> scientists
>> >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the
>> ancient
>> >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This:
>> symbol :
>> >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>> scales,
>> >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for
>> unification of
>> >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
>> >
>> >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
>> >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the
>> subatomic Planck
>> >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum
>> physics. Yet
>> >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless
>> space and
>> >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
>> >insignificance.
>> >
>> >Gute Nacht!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
>> >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
>> >>
>> >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
>> >>
>> >>William
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>info:
>> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >>
>> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>dialogue facilitator:
>> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >>admin@david-bohm.net
>> >>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
>> Windows Live
>> >Spaces
>> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >info:
>> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>> >
>> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> >dialogue facilitator:
>> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> >Administrator of the mailing list:
>> >admin@david-bohm.net
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
>> href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-
>> us&source=hmtagline
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> info:
>> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>> dialogue facilitator:
>> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>> Administrator of the mailing list:
>> admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?
> href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-
> us&source=hmtagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> info:
> www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
> dialogue facilitator:
> facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
> Administrator of the mailing list:
> admin@david-bohm.net
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
From DStulberg at msw-law.com Thu Sep 21 17:48:14 2006
From: DStulberg at msw-law.com (Dorothy Stulberg)
Date: Fri Sep 22 18:41:27 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Dialogue a proposal
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A1B@msw2k.msw.local>
thanks for recalling "A Proposal" I have often wondered why we have to
read anything else. It is he core of Bohm for me. D.
________________________________
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of
Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 5:08 PM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: Dialogue a proposal
Rodger __There are several statements in -DIALOGUE, A PROPOSAL 1991, by
D Bohm, D Factor, P Garrett- which answer some questions that Franis
raised regarding the dialogue group experience she was having. I thought
the statements were refreshing to see again.
pg 20-- The spirit of Dialogue is one of free play, a sort of collective
dance of the mind that, nevertheless has immense power and reveals
coherent purpose.
pg 14--Suspension involves exposing your reactions, impulses, feelings
and opinions in such a way that they can be seen and felt within your
own psyche and also be reflected back by others in the group.
pg 6 -- Because the nature of Dialogue is exploratory its meaning and
its methods continue to unfold. No firm rules can be laid down for
conducting a Dialogue because its essence is learning -- not as the
result of consuming a body of information or doctrine imparted by
authority, nor as a means of examining or criticizing a particular
theory or programme, but rather as part of an unfolding process of
creative participation between peers. END
_R
-------------- next part --------------
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From DStulberg at msw-law.com Thu Sep 21 17:52:59 2006
From: DStulberg at msw-law.com (Dorothy Stulberg)
Date: Fri Sep 22 18:46:08 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A1D@msw2k.msw.local>
Zoe what and where are you studying. EXcuse me if you have already told
us. I'd love to be somewhere where Varela and Maturana are really
studied. I've read most of their work but I'm along way from having it
be a part of my "being". I can't use their thoughts in my words. D.
________________________________
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of Zoe Chu
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:39 PM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Hi Kristen -
Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization,
and as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
area. In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto
Maturana, once in the province of pure speculation now have become
immediately relevant with respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type
systems not only are homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve
stable internal conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if
they are to survive. Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via
synthetic devices is the larger and more serious concern in the
discussion about Warwick and those involved in similar research.
"Pulling the plug" on independent devices cannot be as simple as it
appears, for if the device displays sufficient intelligence and assumes
a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may ultimately one day be forced
to decide between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but
correct) and our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and
"intuitive" perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited
behavior not anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing
suicide" because it could not cope with its environment. In a more
complex setting, it may be asked whether a "natural selection" may be
possible, neural networks being the major operative.
Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally
in a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if
allowed to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the
character of the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should
be a starting point for a more serious discussion than the popular media
seems to be capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario, Warwick
is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said that it is
great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather than
the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
-- Zoe
kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear habituated Susbcribers
The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961
Master's
thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called
"risky
shift", meaning that a group's decisions are riskier than the
average of
the individual decisions of members before the group met. The
discovery of
the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
especially
since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
researchers
suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did
groups,
leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that
would
conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research
around the
risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case
exception to
the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s,
however, it had
become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many
attitudes that
became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni
to term the
overall phenomenon "group polarization".
Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: "kirsten schneide"
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
>
>
>
>
>Oh William, I like your
>
>Attitude/s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Love & Dress, Kirsten
>
>PS:
>
>There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation
that causes
>many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe
and to focus
>instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
>
>The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world
has caused
>many people to close off their thinking to large issues and
long time
>scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
>
>In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and
codes of
>behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of
who they
>are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship
to the
>larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however,
scientific
>advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
offering an
>image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
>
>Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
scientists
>understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the
ancient
>Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This:
symbol :
>represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different
size scales,
>with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for
unification of
>theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
>
>The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders
of
>magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the
subatomic Planck
>scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum
physics. Yet
>people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of
endless space and
>uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks
into
>insignificance.
>
>Gute Nacht!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
>> >about the Deikmans' piece.
>>
>>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
>>
>>William
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on
Windows Live
>Spaces
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http:
//www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http:/
/imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
________________________________
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42974/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview>
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 19:17:20 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Fri Sep 22 20:10:58 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A1D@msw2k.msw.local>
Message-ID: <20060921171720.2641.qmail@web55007.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Systems Dynamic Group - M.I.T. --- But reading anything getting washed ashore my senses.
Zoe
Dorothy Stulberg <DStulberg@msw-law.com> wrote:
Zoe what and where are you studying. EXcuse me if you have already told us. I'd love to be somewhere where Varela and Maturana are really studied. I've read most of their work but I'm along way from having it be a part of my "being". I can't use their thoughts in my words. D.
---------------------------------
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org [mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of Zoe Chu
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 4:39 PM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Hi Kristen -
Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization, and as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this area. In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once in the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant with respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive. Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may ultimately one day be forced to decide
between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct) and our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive" perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because it could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks being the major operative.
Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S. Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally in a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character of the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said that it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather than the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
-- Zoe
kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear habituated Susbcribers
The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Master?s
thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
shift", meaning that a group?s decisions are riskier than the average of
the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery of
the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive, especially
since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other researchers
suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around the
risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception to
the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes that
became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term the
overall phenomenon "group polarization".
Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>From: "kirsten schneide"
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
>
>
>
>
>Oh William, I like your
>
>Attitude/s
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Love & Dress, Kirsten
>
>PS:
>
>There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that causes
>many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to focus
>instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
>
>The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has caused
>many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
>scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
>
>In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
>behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who they
>are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
>larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
>advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while offering an
>image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
>
>Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what scientists
>understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
>Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol :
>represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size scales,
>with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification of
>theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
>
>The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
>magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic Planck
>scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
>people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space and
>uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
>insignificance.
>
>Gute Nacht!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
>> >about the Deikmans' piece.
>>
>>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
>>
>>William
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>info:
>>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>>
>>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>>
>>dialogue facilitator:
>>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>>
>>Administrator of the mailing list:
>>admin@david-bohm.net
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
>Spaces
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. _______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Thu Sep 21 19:28:58 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Fri Sep 22 20:22:31 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F19D496071316915573269CA8230@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060921172859.51080.qmail@web55014.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I cherish! Glad M told me about this list.
The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming stimuli from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might shut out this same information through a process called "latent inhibition" - defined as an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore stimuli that experience has shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through psychological testing, the researchers showed that creative individuals are much more likely to have low levels of latent inhibition.
"This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the extra information constantly streaming in from the environment," says Jordan Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then forgets about it, even though that object is much more complex and interesting than he or she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is always open to new possibilities."
Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity to think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson states: "If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only two or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate or you'll get swamped."
"Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment under others."
For example, during the early stages of diseases such as schizophrenia, which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight, mystical knowledge and religious experience, chemical changes take place in which latent inhibition disappears.
"We are very excited by the results of these studies," says Peterson. "It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological bases of creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery: the relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
Zoe
kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by variability
in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of
activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused than
extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are
more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is
such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as
predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social
engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>Hi Kristen -
>
> Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
>of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
>
> Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
>other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization, and
>as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this area.
>In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once in
>the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant with
>respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
>homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
>conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive.
>Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the
>larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those
>involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices
>cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient
>intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may
>ultimately one day be forced to decide
> between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct) and
>our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
>perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
>anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because it
>could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be
>asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks being
>the major operative.
>
> Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
>device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
>Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
>battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
>all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally in
>a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
>assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
>used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
>situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
>synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed
>to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character of
>the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting
>point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be
>capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said that
>it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather than
>the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
>ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
>about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
>another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
>
> -- Zoe
>
>kirsten schneide wrote:
>
>
>Dear habituated Susbcribers
>
>The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Master?s
>thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
>shift", meaning that a group?s decisions are riskier than the average of
>the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery of
>the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive, especially
>since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other researchers
>suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
>leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
>conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
>counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around the
>risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception to
>the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
>become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes that
>became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term the
>overall phenomenon "group polarization".
>
>
>
>Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
> >From: "kirsten schneide"
> >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Oh William, I like your
> >
> >Attitude/s
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> >
> >PS:
> >
> >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that causes
> >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to
>focus
> >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> >
> >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has caused
> >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
> >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> >
> >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
> >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who they
> >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
> >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
> >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while offering
>an
> >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> >
> >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
>scientists
> >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
> >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol :
> >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size scales,
> >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification of
> >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> >
> >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
>Planck
> >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
> >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space
>and
> >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> >insignificance.
> >
> >Gute Nacht!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> >>
> >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> >>
> >>William
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>info:
> >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >>
> >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>dialogue facilitator:
> >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> >>admin@david-bohm.net
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> >Spaces
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
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>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
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