From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Fri Sep 22 14:51:56 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sat Sep 23 15:45:52 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Re: latent inhibition
In-Reply-To: <20060923100003.5CD9C2300E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFB6E8CC18.A08D3163-ON852571F1.004623AD-852571F1.0046AC8F@dialogos.com>
Rodger __ Hi Zoe, the recent research on latent inhibition that you refer
to is very cool, could you tell me of a book or two that I might read,
please?_R
.
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
.
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From Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com Fri Sep 22 15:19:32 2006
From: Rodger.Hyodo at dialogos.com (Rodger.Hyodo@dialogos.com)
Date: Sat Sep 23 16:13:24 2006
Subject: Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20060923100003.5CD9C2300E@web.internal.van-den-heuvel.org>
Message-ID: <OFBD34A682.6E8D08AE-ON852571F1.00470411-852571F1.00493344@dialogos.com>
Rodger__Brains working together? ..reminds me of times I found myself in
the presence of individuals who maim/ or worse other people as a
profession.
Sometimes I knew what their profession was, other times I found out later.
But whether I knew or not, and even though they appeared perfectly normal,
i.e. well dressed and mannered, in each case a disturbing feeling, unique
to those occassions was raised in me.
As if something in the way those brains worked set off alarms in the way my
brain worked.
That to me is an extreme example, of subtle levels, of
brains-working-together._R
From: Don Factor <donfactor@donfactor.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
.
I mean, how might have Eysenck described a bunch
of brains working together? don
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From kirstenschneide at hotmail.com Fri Sep 22 15:37:43 2006
From: kirstenschneide at hotmail.com (kirsten schneide)
Date: Sat Sep 23 16:31:28 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <20060921172859.51080.qmail@web55014.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY107-F32DD05AFDDBBDDE53768C5A8210@phx.gbl>
Dear Zoe, did you read how Donf keeps drooling about his (Chat group going):
Laser-thinkg;-? It all ways cracks me up. Mon Cheri Donf, how many decades
have you taken care of (by) now by 'doing' (Bohm)Dialog? And? Any Lasers in
sight? In-sights?? Any "fresh" stuff? O Boy! At any 'rate', Zoe, this 'all'
brings up the great problem raised by the therapeutic revolution, namely:::
" So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated people,
at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any pleasanter or
less tragic a place. It may even be worse in still unknown ways. As Tillich
warned us, and Donl likes to make-up himselves a bit here&there with T, New
Being, under the conditions and limitations of existence, will only bring
into play new and sharper paradoxes, new tensions, and more painful
disharmonies—a "more intense demonism." Reality is remorseless because gods
do not walk upon the earth; and if men could become noble repositories of
great gulfs of nonbeing, they would have even less peace than we oblivious
and driven madmen have today. Besides, can any ideal of therapeutic
revolutions touch the vast masses of this globe, the modern mechanical men
in Russia, the near-billion sheeplike followers in China, the brutalized and
ignorant populations of almost every continent? When one lives in the
liberation atmosphere of Berkeley, California, or in the intoxications of
small doses of unconstriction in a therapeutic group in one's home town, one
is living in a hothouse atmosphere that shuts out the reality of the rest of
the planet, the way things really are in this world. It is this therapeutic
megalomania that must quickly been seen through if we are not to be perfect
fools. The empirical facts of the world will not fade away because one has
analyzed his Oedipus complex, as Freud so well knew, or because one can make
love with tenderness, as so many now believe. Forget it. In this sense again
it is Freud's somber pessimism, especially of his later writings such as
"Civilization and Its Discontents", that keeps him so contemporary. Us human
animals are doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic and
demonic world. Enough said, it's good to have you on board .... of this ship
of fools.
Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>From: Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I cherish!
>Glad M told me about this list.
>
> The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming stimuli
>from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might shut out this
>same information through a process called "latent inhibition" - defined as
>an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore stimuli that experience has
>shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through psychological testing, the
>researchers showed that creative individuals are much more likely to have
>low levels of latent inhibition.
>
> "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the extra
>information constantly streaming in from the environment," says Jordan
>Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then forgets about
>it, even though that object is much more complex and interesting than he or
>she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is always open to new
>possibilities."
>
> Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli
>with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also
>contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
>
> The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when
>combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity to
>think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson states:
>"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to
>intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only two
>or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate or
>you'll get swamped."
>
> "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity
>seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent
>inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to
>mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment under
>others."
>
> For example, during the early stages of diseases such as schizophrenia,
>which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight, mystical knowledge
>and religious experience, chemical changes take place in which latent
>inhibition disappears.
>
> "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says Peterson.
>"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological bases of
>creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery: the
>relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
>variability
>in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of
>activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused
>than
>extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are
>more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is
>such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
>extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as
>predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social
>engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
>Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Kristen -
> >
> > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
> >of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> >
> > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
> >other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization,
>and
> >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
>area.
> >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once
>in
> >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant
>with
> >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
> >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
> >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive.
> >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the
> >larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those
> >involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices
> >cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient
> >intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may
> >ultimately one day be forced to decide
> > between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct)
>and
> >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
> >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because
>it
> >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be
> >asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks
>being
> >the major operative.
> >
> > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
> >device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
> >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
> >battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
> >all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally
>in
> >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
> >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
> >used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
> >situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
> >synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed
> >to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character
>of
> >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting
> >point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be
> >capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> > Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said
>that
> >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather
>than
> >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
> >ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
> >about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
> >another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
> >
> > -- Zoe
> >
> >kirsten schneide wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> >
> >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Master’s
> >thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
> >shift", meaning that a group’s decisions are riskier than the average of
> >the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery
>of
> >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>especially
> >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>researchers
> >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
> >leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
> >conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
> >counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around
>the
> >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception
>to
> >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
> >become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes
>that
> >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term
>the
> >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Oh William, I like your
> > >
> > >Attitude/s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > >
> > >PS:
> > >
> > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that
>causes
> > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to
> >focus
> > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > >
> > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>caused
> > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
> > >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > >
> > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
> > >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who
>they
> > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
> > >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
> > >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
>offering
> >an
> > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > >
> > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> >scientists
> > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
> > >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol
>:
> > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>scales,
> > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification
>of
> > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > >
> > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
> >Planck
> > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
> > >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space
> >and
> > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> > >insignificance.
> > >
> > >Gute Nacht!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> > >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> > >>
> > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > >>
> > >>William
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>info:
> > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >>
> > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > >Spaces
> >
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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From DStulberg at msw-law.com Fri Sep 22 16:17:16 2006
From: DStulberg at msw-law.com (Dorothy Stulberg)
Date: Sat Sep 23 17:10:38 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A77@msw2k.msw.local>
Joseph Campbell says live within the good and the bad. This is a "gray"
existence. We are foolish to think it is all good or all bad. But
living in it means doing our best-knowing there is good. That's my take
on the world we live in. Likewise my belief is that there is "good" and
"bad" in all of us whatever those words mean. D.
-----Original Message-----
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of kirsten
schneide
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:38 AM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Dear Zoe, did you read how Donf keeps drooling about his (Chat group
going):
Laser-thinkg;-? It all ways cracks me up. Mon Cheri Donf, how many
decades have you taken care of (by) now by 'doing' (Bohm)Dialog? And?
Any Lasers in sight? In-sights?? Any "fresh" stuff? O Boy! At any
'rate', Zoe, this 'all'
brings up the great problem raised by the therapeutic revolution,
namely:::
" So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated
people, at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any
pleasanter or less tragic a place. It may even be worse in still unknown
ways. As Tillich warned us, and Donl likes to make-up himselves a bit
here&there with T, New Being, under the conditions and limitations of
existence, will only bring into play new and sharper paradoxes, new
tensions, and more painful disharmonies-a "more intense demonism."
Reality is remorseless because gods do not walk upon the earth; and if
men could become noble repositories of great gulfs of nonbeing, they
would have even less peace than we oblivious and driven madmen have
today. Besides, can any ideal of therapeutic revolutions touch the vast
masses of this globe, the modern mechanical men in Russia, the
near-billion sheeplike followers in China, the brutalized and ignorant
populations of almost every continent? When one lives in the liberation
atmosphere of Berkeley, California, or in the intoxications of small
doses of unconstriction in a therapeutic group in one's home town, one
is living in a hothouse atmosphere that shuts out the reality of the
rest of the planet, the way things really are in this world. It is this
therapeutic megalomania that must quickly been seen through if we are
not to be perfect fools. The empirical facts of the world will not fade
away because one has analyzed his Oedipus complex, as Freud so well
knew, or because one can make love with tenderness, as so many now
believe. Forget it. In this sense again it is Freud's somber pessimism,
especially of his later writings such as "Civilization and Its
Discontents", that keeps him so contemporary. Us human animals are
doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic and demonic
world. Enough said, it's good to have you on board .... of this ship of
fools.
Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>From: Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I
cherish!
>Glad M told me about this list.
>
> The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming
>stimuli from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might
>shut out this same information through a process called "latent
>inhibition" - defined as an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore
>stimuli that experience has shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through
>psychological testing, the researchers showed that creative individuals
>are much more likely to have low levels of latent inhibition.
>
> "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the
>extra information constantly streaming in from the environment," says
>Jordan Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then
>forgets about it, even though that object is much more complex and
>interesting than he or she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is
>always open to new possibilities."
>
> Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli
>with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also
>contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
>
> The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when
>combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity
>to think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson
states:
>"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to
>intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only
>two or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate
>or you'll get swamped."
>
> "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity
>seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent
>inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to
>mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment
>under others."
>
> For example, during the early stages of diseases such as
>schizophrenia, which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight,
>mystical knowledge and religious experience, chemical changes take
>place in which latent inhibition disappears.
>
> "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says
Peterson.
>"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological
>bases of creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery:
>the relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
>variability in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by
>higher levels of activity than extraverts and so are chronically more
>cortically aroused than extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to
>suppose that introverts are more aroused than extraverts, the putative
>effect this has on behaviour is such that the introvert seeks lower
>levels of stimulation. Conversely, the extravert seeks to heighten
>their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as predicted by the
>Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social engagement and
>other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
>Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Kristen -
> >
> > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you
> >make of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> >
> > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid
> >each other while operating in a group raises the issue of
> >self-organization,
>and
> >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
>area.
> >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana,
> >once
>in
> >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant
>with
> >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
> >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
> >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to
survive.
> >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is
> >the larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick
> >and those involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on
> >independent devices cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the
> >device displays sufficient intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and
> >prognostic stature, we may ultimately one day be forced to decide
> >between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct)
>and
> >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
> >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide"
> >because
>it
> >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it
> >may be asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural
> >networks
>being
> >the major operative.
> >
> > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not
> >confined to device implantation or automatons. Researching websites
on the U.S.
> >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated
> >international battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the
> >day when not only all military systems are interoperable, but can be
> >coordinated globally
>in
> >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
> >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to
> >be used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time
> >battlefield situation. If this happens, we must consider
> >self-organization in these synthetic systems operating in critical
> >environments. That is, if allowed to operate with minimal or no human
> >intervention, what of the character
>of
> >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a
> >starting point for a more serious discussion than the popular media
> >seems to be capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> >Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said
>that
> >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible,
> >rather
>than
> >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given
> >us ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of
> >thinking about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in
> >favor of another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in
order.
> >
> > -- Zoe
> >
> >kirsten schneide wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> >
> >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961
> >Master's thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the
> >so-called "risky shift", meaning that a group's decisions are riskier
> >than the average of the individual decisions of members before the
> >group met. The discovery
>of
> >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>especially
> >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>researchers
> >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did
> >groups, leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions
> >that would conform to the average risk level of its members. The
> >seemingly counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of
> >research around
>the
> >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case
> >exception
>to
> >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it
> >had become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many
> >attitudes
>that
> >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to
> >term
>the
> >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Oh William, I like your
> > >
> > >Attitude/s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > >
> > >PS:
> > >
> > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that
>causes
> > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and
> > >to
> >focus
> > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > >
> > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>caused
> > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long
> > >time scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > >
> > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes
> > >of behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of
> > >who
>they
> > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to
> > >the larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however,
> > >scientific advances have tended to undermine traditional
> > >cosmologies while
>offering
> >an
> > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > >
> > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> >scientists
> > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the
> > >ancient Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail.
> > >This: symbol
>:
> > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>scales,
> > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for
> > >unification
>of
> > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > >
> > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
> >Planck
> > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics.
> > >Yet people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of
> > >endless space
> >and
> > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> > >insignificance.
> > >
> > >Gute Nacht!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks about the Deikmans'
> > >> >piece.
> > >>
> > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > >>
> > >>William
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>info:
> > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >>
> > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> > >Live Spaces
> >
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=htt
> >p://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=htt
> >p://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmta
> >gline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http:
>//imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtaglin
>e
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows
Live Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http:/
/www.get.live.com/spaces/features
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
From tubakari at yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 16:26:02 2006
From: tubakari at yahoo.com (Karilen Mays)
Date: Sat Sep 23 17:19:46 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F32DD05AFDDBBDDE53768C5A8210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060922142602.92079.qmail@web52905.mail.yahoo.com>
" So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated people,
at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any pleasanter or
less tragic a place.
Kari: YOU can't imagine...I recommend self hypnosis - it has helped me actiivate my imagination.
Us human
animals are doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic and
demonic world.
Kari: Speak for yourself.
Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>From: Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I cherish!
>Glad M told me about this list.
>
> The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming stimuli
>from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might shut out this
>same information through a process called "latent inhibition" - defined as
>an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore stimuli that experience has
>shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through psychological testing, the
>researchers showed that creative individuals are much more likely to have
>low levels of latent inhibition.
>
> "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the extra
>information constantly streaming in from the environment," says Jordan
>Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then forgets about
>it, even though that object is much more complex and interesting than he or
>she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is always open to new
>possibilities."
>
> Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli
>with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also
>contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
>
> The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when
>combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity to
>think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson states:
>"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to
>intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only two
>or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate or
>you'll get swamped."
>
> "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity
>seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent
>inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to
>mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment under
>others."
>
> For example, during the early stages of diseases such as schizophrenia,
>which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight, mystical knowledge
>and religious experience, chemical changes take place in which latent
>inhibition disappears.
>
> "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says Peterson.
>"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological bases of
>creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery: the
>relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
>variability
>in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of
>activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused
>than
>extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are
>more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is
>such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
>extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as
>predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social
>engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
>Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Kristen -
> >
> > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
> >of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> >
> > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
> >other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization,
>and
> >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
>area.
> >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once
>in
> >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant
>with
> >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
> >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
> >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive.
> >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the
> >larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those
> >involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices
> >cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient
> >intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may
> >ultimately one day be forced to decide
> > between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct)
>and
> >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
> >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because
>it
> >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be
> >asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks
>being
> >the major operative.
> >
> > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
> >device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
> >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
> >battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
> >all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally
>in
> >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
> >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
> >used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
> >situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
> >synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed
> >to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character
>of
> >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting
> >point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be
> >capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> > Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said
>that
> >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather
>than
> >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
> >ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
> >about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
> >another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
> >
> > -- Zoe
> >
> >kirsten schneide wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> >
> >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Masters
> >thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
> >shift", meaning that a groups decisions are riskier than the average of
> >the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery
>of
> >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>especially
> >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>researchers
> >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
> >leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
> >conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
> >counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around
>the
> >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception
>to
> >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
> >become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes
>that
> >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term
>the
> >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Oh William, I like your
> > >
> > >Attitude/s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > >
> > >PS:
> > >
> > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that
>causes
> > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to
> >focus
> > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > >
> > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>caused
> > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
> > >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > >
> > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
> > >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who
>they
> > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
> > >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
> > >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
>offering
> >an
> > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > >
> > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> >scientists
> > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
> > >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol
>:
> > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>scales,
> > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification
>of
> > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > >
> > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
> >Planck
> > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
> > >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space
> >and
> > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> > >insignificance.
> > >
> > >Gute Nacht!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> > >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> > >>
> > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > >>
> > >>William
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>info:
> > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >>
> > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
> > >Spaces
> >
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
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From DStulberg at msw-law.com Fri Sep 22 16:44:25 2006
From: DStulberg at msw-law.com (Dorothy Stulberg)
Date: Sat Sep 23 17:37:47 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] welcoming content
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A7E@msw2k.msw.local>
I too resonate. I know when I am there and when I lose my way. Lately
I've lost my way. I am so stressed over what our (my) country has done
and is doing. The latest so called agreement on "torture" is a fake.
The power still lies in that man in the white house. We can still
torture and we can still use evidence obtained from torture. As a
person involved in representing those who may have violated the law, I
know how immoral torture is and how the results are not to be trusted.
What kind of a citizentry do we have that allows us to go down this
path?
________________________________
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of Lynne Tolk
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:26 PM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] welcoming content
Kari,
Yes, I resonate! I was very into goddess energy several years ago,
then sort of shifted into Buddhism, via Thich Nhat Hanh. I like his
simple, but deep common sense. And I only recently discovered Bohm.
But I still have my Motherpeace tarot deck. The whole idea of round
cards appeals to me.
Lynne
On 9/19/06 8:52 PM, "Karilen Mays" <tubakari@yahoo.com> wrote:
well thanks for asking dorothy!
i will try to elaborate a bit. goddess or divine feminine can
mean a lot of things to people today. what i (and others) believe is
emerging today is shakti. shakti is the energy in every living thing.
there is a whole lot we could say about shakti. one way this is
illustrated is by feelings. by embodying our human form we can access
this energy that is less accessible through only thinking, which is more
of a masculine activity. eckhart tolle may be a good example of a
teaching with a feminine nature. please dont get too hung up on the
words; if you know i what i mean, then wonderful, and if you dont then
wonderful. im not so much in the mood to debate...unless it is in a
friendly curious way. :) the feminine essence is what evokes communion
and blurs the boundaries set by the masculine, which helps provide
order.
the goddess energy is love. i have felt an increased amount and
quality of energy in the body over the last couple of months. the more i
relax into the body, the better i feel, and it exponentially affects
those with whom i come in contact and how i live my life.
often times i hear myself talking as if objectively hearing the
words just flow out. i watch myself drive or go places, and what i see
during sleep blurs with what happens during the daylight. i feel extreme
peace and bliss at times and an urgency to relax like this in the
presence of other individuals. i have been writing a lot in my journals
just whatever comes up. it keeps coming. i am beginning to feel like i
have a message to share with the world and that i am on the verge of
something really magnificent, though i have really always had the
feeling of greatness in the background...we all are experiencing
something miraculous, as humans alive in this particular point in
space/time, which also exists to be experienced in a different way.
therefore, i hold the possibility of insanity too. :)
i have been doing self hypnosis, which has definitely relaxed my
body to the point that i can truly embody my feminine self. today i had
a migraine in the morning and it is now almost totally gone. i did
healing visualizations, meditation, and breathing this morning. i have
had migraines for 8 years now, having to take medicine every single time
or they do not go away. now twice in the last month i have healed myself
without medication. i even went to work for a couple hours today.
so as i uncover and relax into these subtle parts of myself,
normally hidden and shut down in today's rational linear rigid world,
the personal transformation helps act as a midwife to a new level of
consciousness emerging on the planet.
this is something i have believed every since around the time i
encountered bohm's work, and now i have read some very interesting
possibilities in daniel pinchbeck's book, 2012 the return of
quetzalcoatl. he mentions f david peat's work a couple times. of course
there have been many synchronisities.
oh, i just remembered: part of this feminine essence seems to be
uncertainty and a willingness to rest in and hold the uncertainty. this
may help balance out the knowing/limited experience. so don, maybe the
way i was meaning know is a felt sense, more intuitive with room for
uncertainty...
i hope that gives you at least a slight idea of this trip ive
been on lately. wow, it is so fun.does anyone here resonate with
anything i am saying?
peace,
kari
----- Original Message ----
From: Dorothy Stulberg <DStulberg@msw-law.com>
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:07:31 PM
Subject: RE: [Bohm_Dialogue] welcoming content
karilen what is a goddess energy trip? It sounds so good I want
to go too. d.
________________________________
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of Don Lay
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:11 PM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] welcoming content
maybe if we truly know this then words aren't so limiting...? --
Kari
Part of the problem, perhaps, is that know implicates limitation
in that, in the West know means language, saying ... with words -- and
words are limits, by definition a word limits.
As you suggest, when there is awareness, "then the words aren't
so limiting." Bohm indicates there's a problem with knowing when the
identity is used. It seems people dislike the idea of their self
identity being limited, for example, having meaning only in society,
culture. -- Don L
________________________________
_______________________________________________
info:
www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
dialogue facilitator:
facilitator@david-bohm.net
Administrator of the mailing list:
admin@david-bohm.net
_______________________________________________
-- Lynne Tolk, Professional Coach
208 376-1336
www.lifedirectionscoach.com
(visit my blog, www.anintegratedlife.com)
"Love is never earned . . .
It is a grace we give one another" - Rachel Naomi Remen
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 17:47:41 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Sat Sep 23 18:41:27 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <BAY107-F32DD05AFDDBBDDE53768C5A8210@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20060922154741.65115.qmail@web55008.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Kirsten - Thanks for that. Quite Interesting. Will look into that. By the way: Are you familiar with Craig Reynold's work (Boids)?
1, separation (avoid crowding neighbours)
2 , alignment (steer towards average heading of neighbours)
3 , cohesion (steer towards average position of neighbours)
Somehow seems to resonate nicely with Solomon's work on TMT
1, to deny or belittle and devalue the importance third (second) party "Weltanschauung" (Hegel), but try
2, to controvert (To raise arguments against; voice opposition to) the ideas and opinions of others which may, as a consequence,
3, escalate into a conflict. Force. Violence. Elimination. You name it -
What do you think? Are you a student, too? -- Zoe
kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Zoe, did you read how Donf keeps drooling about his (Chat group going):
Laser-thinkg;-? It all ways cracks me up. Mon Cheri Donf, how many decades
have you taken care of (by) now by 'doing' (Bohm)Dialog? And? Any Lasers in
sight? In-sights?? Any "fresh" stuff? O Boy! At any 'rate', Zoe, this 'all'
brings up the great problem raised by the therapeutic revolution, namely:::
" So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated people,
at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any pleasanter or
less tragic a place. It may even be worse in still unknown ways. As Tillich
warned us, and Donl likes to make-up himselves a bit here&there with T, New
Being, under the conditions and limitations of existence, will only bring
into play new and sharper paradoxes, new tensions, and more painful
disharmonies?a "more intense demonism." Reality is remorseless because gods
do not walk upon the earth; and if men could become noble repositories of
great gulfs of nonbeing, they would have even less peace than we oblivious
and driven madmen have today. Besides, can any ideal of therapeutic
revolutions touch the vast masses of this globe, the modern mechanical men
in Russia, the near-billion sheeplike followers in China, the brutalized and
ignorant populations of almost every continent? When one lives in the
liberation atmosphere of Berkeley, California, or in the intoxications of
small doses of unconstriction in a therapeutic group in one's home town, one
is living in a hothouse atmosphere that shuts out the reality of the rest of
the planet, the way things really are in this world. It is this therapeutic
megalomania that must quickly been seen through if we are not to be perfect
fools. The empirical facts of the world will not fade away because one has
analyzed his Oedipus complex, as Freud so well knew, or because one can make
love with tenderness, as so many now believe. Forget it. In this sense again
it is Freud's somber pessimism, especially of his later writings such as
"Civilization and Its Discontents", that keeps him so contemporary. Us human
animals are doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic and
demonic world. Enough said, it's good to have you on board .... of this ship
of fools.
Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>From: Zoe Chu
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I cherish!
>Glad M told me about this list.
>
> The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming stimuli
>from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might shut out this
>same information through a process called "latent inhibition" - defined as
>an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore stimuli that experience has
>shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through psychological testing, the
>researchers showed that creative individuals are much more likely to have
>low levels of latent inhibition.
>
> "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the extra
>information constantly streaming in from the environment," says Jordan
>Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then forgets about
>it, even though that object is much more complex and interesting than he or
>she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is always open to new
>possibilities."
>
> Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli
>with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also
>contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
>
> The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when
>combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity to
>think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson states:
>"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to
>intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only two
>or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate or
>you'll get swamped."
>
> "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity
>seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent
>inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to
>mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment under
>others."
>
> For example, during the early stages of diseases such as schizophrenia,
>which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight, mystical knowledge
>and religious experience, chemical changes take place in which latent
>inhibition disappears.
>
> "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says Peterson.
>"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological bases of
>creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery: the
>relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
>variability
>in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels of
>activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically aroused
>than
>extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that introverts are
>more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on behaviour is
>such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation. Conversely, the
>extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as
>predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social
>engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
>Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Kristen -
> >
> > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you make
> >of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> >
> > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid each
> >other while operating in a group raises the issue of self-organization,
>and
> >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
>area.
> >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana, once
>in
> >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant
>with
> >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
> >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
> >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to survive.
> >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is the
> >larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick and those
> >involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent devices
> >cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays sufficient
> >intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we may
> >ultimately one day be forced to decide
> > between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct)
>and
> >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
> >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide" because
>it
> >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it may be
> >asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural networks
>being
> >the major operative.
> >
> > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not confined to
> >device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the U.S.
> >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated international
> >battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when not only
> >all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated globally
>in
> >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
> >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to be
> >used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time battlefield
> >situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in these
> >synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if allowed
> >to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the character
>of
> >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a starting
> >point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems to be
> >capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> > Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said
>that
> >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible, rather
>than
> >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given us
> >ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of thinking
> >about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in favor of
> >another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in order.
> >
> > -- Zoe
> >
> >kirsten schneide wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> >
> >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961 Master?s
> >thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called "risky
> >shift", meaning that a group?s decisions are riskier than the average of
> >the individual decisions of members before the group met. The discovery
>of
> >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>especially
> >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>researchers
> >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did groups,
> >leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that would
> >conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
> >counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research around
>the
> >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case exception
>to
> >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it had
> >become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many attitudes
>that
> >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to term
>the
> >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Oh William, I like your
> > >
> > >Attitude/s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > >
> > >PS:
> > >
> > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that
>causes
> > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and to
> >focus
> > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > >
> > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>caused
> > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long time
> > >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > >
> > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes of
> > >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of who
>they
> > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to the
> > >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however, scientific
> > >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
>offering
> >an
> > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > >
> > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> >scientists
> > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the ancient
> > >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This: symbol
>:
> > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>scales,
> > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for unification
>of
> > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > >
> > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
> >Planck
> > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics. Yet
> > >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of endless space
> >and
> > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> > >insignificance.
> > >
> > >Gute Nacht!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> > >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> > >>
> > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > >>
> > >>William
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>info:
> > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >>
> > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows Live
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> >
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> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
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>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
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From zoechuzero at yahoo.com Fri Sep 22 17:56:31 2006
From: zoechuzero at yahoo.com (Zoe Chu)
Date: Sat Sep 23 18:50:18 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
In-Reply-To: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D169551A77@msw2k.msw.local>
Message-ID: <20060922155631.67789.qmail@web55008.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Dorothy - We are using that "line" of thinking building models in Catastrophe Theory (Christopher Zeeman) --- Zoe
Dorothy Stulberg <DStulberg@msw-law.com> wrote: Joseph Campbell says live within the good and the bad. This is a "gray"
existence. We are foolish to think it is all good or all bad. But
living in it means doing our best-knowing there is good. That's my take
on the world we live in. Likewise my belief is that there is "good" and
"bad" in all of us whatever those words mean. D.
-----Original Message-----
From: bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org
[mailto:bohm_dialogue-bounces@david-bohm.org] On Behalf Of kirsten
schneide
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:38 AM
To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Dear Zoe, did you read how Donf keeps drooling about his (Chat group
going):
Laser-thinkg;-? It all ways cracks me up. Mon Cheri Donf, how many
decades have you taken care of (by) now by 'doing' (Bohm)Dialog? And?
Any Lasers in sight? In-sights?? Any "fresh" stuff? O Boy! At any
'rate', Zoe, this 'all'
brings up the great problem raised by the therapeutic revolution,
namely:::
" So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated
people, at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any
pleasanter or less tragic a place. It may even be worse in still unknown
ways. As Tillich warned us, and Donl likes to make-up himselves a bit
here&there with T, New Being, under the conditions and limitations of
existence, will only bring into play new and sharper paradoxes, new
tensions, and more painful disharmonies-a "more intense demonism."
Reality is remorseless because gods do not walk upon the earth; and if
men could become noble repositories of great gulfs of nonbeing, they
would have even less peace than we oblivious and driven madmen have
today. Besides, can any ideal of therapeutic revolutions touch the vast
masses of this globe, the modern mechanical men in Russia, the
near-billion sheeplike followers in China, the brutalized and ignorant
populations of almost every continent? When one lives in the liberation
atmosphere of Berkeley, California, or in the intoxications of small
doses of unconstriction in a therapeutic group in one's home town, one
is living in a hothouse atmosphere that shuts out the reality of the
rest of the planet, the way things really are in this world. It is this
therapeutic megalomania that must quickly been seen through if we are
not to be perfect fools. The empirical facts of the world will not fade
away because one has analyzed his Oedipus complex, as Freud so well
knew, or because one can make love with tenderness, as so many now
believe. Forget it. In this sense again it is Freud's somber pessimism,
especially of his later writings such as "Civilization and Its
Discontents", that keeps him so contemporary. Us human animals are
doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic and demonic
world. Enough said, it's good to have you on board .... of this ship of
fools.
Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>From: Zoe Chu
>Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
>Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
>Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I
cherish!
>Glad M told me about this list.
>
> The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming
>stimuli from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might
>shut out this same information through a process called "latent
>inhibition" - defined as an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore
>stimuli that experience has shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through
>psychological testing, the researchers showed that creative individuals
>are much more likely to have low levels of latent inhibition.
>
> "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the
>extra information constantly streaming in from the environment," says
>Jordan Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then
>forgets about it, even though that object is much more complex and
>interesting than he or she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is
>always open to new possibilities."
>
> Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out stimuli
>with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might also
>contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high IQ.
>
> The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive when
>combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the capacity
>to think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson
states:
>"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able to
>intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas, only
>two or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate
>or you'll get swamped."
>
> "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and creativity
>seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of latent
>inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose to
>mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment
>under others."
>
> For example, during the early stages of diseases such as
>schizophrenia, which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight,
>mystical knowledge and religious experience, chemical changes take
>place in which latent inhibition disappears.
>
> "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says
Peterson.
>"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological
>bases of creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery:
>the relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
>
> Zoe
>
>
>
>
>
>kirsten schneide wrote:
> Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
>variability in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by
>higher levels of activity than extraverts and so are chronically more
>cortically aroused than extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to
>suppose that introverts are more aroused than extraverts, the putative
>effect this has on behaviour is such that the introvert seeks lower
>levels of stimulation. Conversely, the extravert seeks to heighten
>their arousal to a more optimal level ~ ~ as predicted by the
>Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity, social engagement and
>other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
>
>
>
>
>Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
>--------------------------
>Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Hi Kristen -
> >
> > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do you
> >make of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> >
> > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to avoid
> >each other while operating in a group raises the issue of
> >self-organization,
>and
> >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in this
>area.
> >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto Maturana,
> >once
>in
> >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately relevant
>with
> >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only are
> >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable internal
> >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to
survive.
> >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices is
> >the larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick
> >and those involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on
> >independent devices cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the
> >device displays sufficient intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and
> >prognostic stature, we may ultimately one day be forced to decide
> >between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but correct)
>and
> >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior not
> >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide"
> >because
>it
> >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting, it
> >may be asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural
> >networks
>being
> >the major operative.
> >
> > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not
> >confined to device implantation or automatons. Researching websites
on the U.S.
> >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated
> >international battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the
> >day when not only all military systems are interoperable, but can be
> >coordinated globally
>in
> >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used for
> >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are to
> >be used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time
> >battlefield situation. If this happens, we must consider
> >self-organization in these synthetic systems operating in critical
> >environments. That is, if allowed to operate with minimal or no human
> >intervention, what of the character
>of
> >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a
> >starting point for a more serious discussion than the popular media
> >seems to be capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> >Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be said
>that
> >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible,
> >rather
>than
> >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has given
> >us ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of
> >thinking about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in
> >favor of another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in
order.
> >
> > -- Zoe
> >
> >kirsten schneide wrote:
> >
> >
> >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> >
> >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961
> >Master's thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the
> >so-called "risky shift", meaning that a group's decisions are riskier
> >than the average of the individual decisions of members before the
> >group met. The discovery
>of
> >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
>especially
> >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
>researchers
> >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did
> >groups, leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions
> >that would conform to the average risk level of its members. The
> >seemingly counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of
> >research around
>the
> >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case
> >exception
>to
> >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s, however, it
> >had become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many
> >attitudes
>that
> >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to
> >term
>the
> >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Oh William, I like your
> > >
> > >Attitude/s
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > >
> > >PS:
> > >
> > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation that
>causes
> > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe and
> > >to
> >focus
> > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > >
> > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world has
>caused
> > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and long
> > >time scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > >
> > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and codes
> > >of behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of
> > >who
>they
> > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship to
> > >the larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however,
> > >scientific advances have tended to undermine traditional
> > >cosmologies while
>offering
> >an
> > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > >
> > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> >scientists
> > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the
> > >ancient Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail.
> > >This: symbol
>:
> > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different size
>scales,
> > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for
> > >unification
>of
> > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > >
> > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders of
> > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the subatomic
> >Planck
> > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum physics.
> > >Yet people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of
> > >endless space
> >and
> > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks into
> > >insignificance.
> > >
> > >Gute Nacht!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks about the Deikmans'
> > >> >piece.
> > >>
> > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > >>
> > >>William
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>info:
> > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >>
> > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > >>
> > >>_______________________________________________
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >Add fun gadgets and colorful themes to express yourself on Windows
> > >Live Spaces
> >
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=htt
> >p://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=htt
> >p://imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmta
> >gline
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http:
>//imagine-msn.com/themes/vibe/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtaglin
>e
>
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>info:
>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
>
>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
>dialogue facilitator:
>facilitator@david-bohm.net
>
>Administrator of the mailing list:
>admin@david-bohm.net
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
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From franis_franis at juno.com Fri Sep 22 19:16:08 2006
From: franis_franis at juno.com (Franis Engel)
Date: Sat Sep 23 20:13:39 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <20060922.101615.1012.1.franis_franis@juno.com>
Actually, significant evidence of tools for change and personal
improvement have emerged from the psychological movements of the
seventies and eighties - which has been reflected in the way people use
language when disputes arrive.
The most obvious one to me today has been the creation of mediation for
individuals and groups. This whole area has come from the psychological
movement of how to see both sides of an issue, and how to talk in a
non-inflamatory way. The whole area of mediation contains many of the
observations and points of Dialogue, but in an applied form.
This has also filtrated down to act of "flaming" on the internet. A
definition of what is "flaming" and what is not has evolved as a result.
The other thing that I've found out is, strangely enough, is there are
many, many lawyers in the San Francisco Bay Area who will offer pro-bono
(free) work. Maybe this just reflects a high concentration of lawyers. I
would like to believe it's a commitment to social justice that exists
nowhere else in the country.
Those are just a couple that I can think of now because of my recent
needs.
Franis
On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 07:26:02 -0700 (PDT) Karilen Mays
<tubakari@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> " So What?".... Even with numerous (chat) groups of really liberated
> people,
> at their best, we can't imagine that the world will be any
> pleasanter or
> less tragic a place.
>
> Kari: YOU can't imagine...I recommend self hypnosis - it has helped
> me actiivate my imagination.
>
> Us human
> animals are doomed, doomed to live&die in an overwhelmingly tragic
> and
> demonic world.
>
> Kari: Speak for yourself.
>
>
> Love & Nuts, Kirsten
>
>
>
> >From: Zoe Chu <zoechuzero@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> >Subject: Re: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
> >Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:28:58 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Kirsten - You seem to be a real nut --- just the kind of humans I
> cherish!
> >Glad M told me about this list.
> >
> > The brains of creative people appear to be more open to incoming
> stimuli
> >from the surrounding environment. Other people's brains might shut
> out this
> >same information through a process called "latent inhibition" -
> defined as
> >an animal's unconscious capacity to ignore stimuli that experience
> has
> >shown are irrelevant to its needs. Through psychological testing,
> the
> >researchers showed that creative individuals are much more likely
> to have
> >low levels of latent inhibition.
> >
> > "This means that creative individuals remain in contact with the
> extra
> >information constantly streaming in from the environment," says
> Jordan
> >Peterson. "The normal person classifies an object, and then forgets
> about
> >it, even though that object is much more complex and interesting
> than he or
> >she thinks. The creative person, by contrast, is always open to new
>
> >possibilities."
> >
> > Previously, scientists have associated failure to screen out
> stimuli
> >with psychosis. However, researchers hypothesized that it might
> also
> >contribute to original thinking, especially when combined with high
> IQ.
> >
> > The authors hypothesize that latent inhibition may be positive
> when
> >combined with high intelligence and good working memory - the
> capacity to
> >think about many things at once - but negative otherwise. Peterson
> states:
> >"If you are open to new information, new ideas, you better be able
> to
> >intelligently and carefully edit and choose. If you have 50 ideas,
> only two
> >or three are likely to be good. You have to be able to discriminate
> or
> >you'll get swamped."
> >
> > "Scientists have wondered for a long time why madness and
> creativity
> >seem linked," says Carson. "It appears likely that low levels of
> latent
> >inhibition and exceptional flexibility in thought might predispose
> to
> >mental illness under some conditions and to creative accomplishment
> under
> >others."
> >
> > For example, during the early stages of diseases such as
> schizophrenia,
> >which are often accompanied by feelings of deep insight, mystical
> knowledge
> >and religious experience, chemical changes take place in which
> latent
> >inhibition disappears.
> >
> > "We are very excited by the results of these studies," says
> Peterson.
> >"It appears that we have not only identified one of the biological
> bases of
> >creativity but have moved towards cracking an age-old mystery: the
> >relationship between genius, madness and the doors of perception."
> >
> > Zoe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >kirsten schneide <kirstenschneide@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Dear Zoe, Hans Eysenck proposed that extraversion was caused by
> >variability
> >in cortical arousal; "introverts are characterized by higher levels
> of
> >activity than extraverts and so are chronically more cortically
> aroused
> >than
> >extraverts". While it seems counterintuitive to suppose that
> introverts are
> >more aroused than extraverts, the putative effect this has on
> behaviour is
> >such that the introvert seeks lower levels of stimulation.
> Conversely, the
> >extravert seeks to heighten their arousal to a more optimal level ~
> ~ as
> >predicted by the Yerkes-Dodson Law) ~ ~ by increased activity,
> social
> >engagement and other stimulation-seeking behaviours.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Love & Drugsl, Kirsten
> >--------------------------
> >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >Hi Kristen -
> > >
> > > Funny. I currently read some of that stuff for class. What do
> you make
> > >of that? Do you see co-relations? Anyone?
> > >
> > > Warwick's claims that robots that can program themselves to
> avoid each
> > >other while operating in a group raises the issue of
> self-organization,
> >and
> > >as such might be the major impetus in following developments in
> this
> >area.
> > >In particular, the works of Fransisco Varela and Humberto
> Maturana, once
> >in
> > >the province of pure speculation now have become immediately
> relevant
> >with
> > >respect to synthetic intelligence. Cyborg-type systems not only
> are
> > >homeostatic (meaning that they are abe to preserve stable
> internal
> > >conditions in various environments) but adaptive, if they are to
> survive.
> > >Testing the claims of Varela and Maturana via synthetic devices
> is the
> > >larger and more serious concern in the discussion about Warwick
> and those
> > >involved in similar research. "Pulling the plug" on independent
> devices
> > >cannot be as simple as it appears, for if the device displays
> sufficient
> > >intelligence and assumes a diagnostic and prognostic stature, we
> may
> > >ultimately one day be forced to decide
> > > between what it could be telling us as counterintuitive (but
> correct)
> >and
> > >our impulse to disconnect because of our limited and "intuitive"
> > >perceptions. Warwick's robots seemed to have exhibited behavior
> not
> > >anticipated by the research, one such robot "committing suicide"
> because
> >it
> > >could not cope with its environment. In a more complex setting,
> it may be
> > >asked whether a "natural selection" may be possible, neural
> networks
> >being
> > >the major operative.
> > >
> > > Thinking about the implications of Warwick's research is not
> confined to
> > >device implantation or automatons. Researching websites on the
> U.S.
> > >Department of Defense's (DoD) development of a simulated
> international
> > >battlespace. It is no secret that the DoD foresees the day when
> not only
> > >all military systems are interoperable, but can be coordinated
> globally
> >in
> > >a real-time war. Ultimately, simulations not only are to be used
> for
> > >assessing alternative outcomes in wargaming settings but also are
> to be
> > >used as diagnostic "tools" interactive with a real time
> battlefield
> > >situation. If this happens, we must consider self-organization in
> these
> > >synthetic systems operating in critical environments. That is, if
> allowed
> > >to operate with minimal or no human intervention, what of the
> character
> >of
> > >the system, itself and its evolution? Hence, Warwick should be a
> starting
> > >point for a more serious discussion than the popular media seems
> to be
> > >capable of maintaining. In the worst case scenario,
> > > Warwick is deemed a proponent of science fiction, but it may be
> said
> >that
> > >it is great science fiction, as it is based upon the plausible,
> rather
> >than
> > >the impossible. In the best case scenario, Warwick, indeed has
> given us
> > >ample notice to humanity to concern itself with the choice of
> thinking
> > >about ourselves and our place in the universe or abnegate in
> favor of
> > >another consciousness. A return to Aristotle and Plato is in
> order.
> > >
> > > -- Zoe
> > >
> > >kirsten schneide wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >Dear habituated Susbcribers
> > >
> > >The study of group polarization began with an unpublished 1961
> Masters
> > >thesis by MIT student James Stoner, who observed the so-called
> "risky
> > >shift", meaning that a groups decisions are riskier than the
> average of
> > >the individual decisions of members before the group met. The
> discovery
> >of
> > >the risky shift was considered surprising and counterintuitive,
> >especially
> > >since earlier work in the 1920s and 1930s by Allport and other
> >researchers
> > >suggested that individuals made more extreme decisions than did
> groups,
> > >leading to the expectation that groups would make decisions that
> would
> > >conform to the average risk level of its members. The seemingly
> > >counterintuitive findings of Stoner led to a flurry of research
> around
> >the
> > >risky shift, which was originally thought to be a special case
> exception
> >to
> > >the standard decision-making practice. By the late 1960s,
> however, it had
> > >become clear that the risky shift was just one type of many
> attitudes
> >that
> > >became more extreme in groups, leading Moscovici and Zavalloni to
> term
> >the
> > >overall phenomenon "group polarization".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Love & Shiftstick, Kirsten
> > >--------------------------
> > >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
> > >
> > > >From: "kirsten schneide"
> > > >Reply-To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > > >To: bohm_dialogue@david-bohm.org
> > > >Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] Welt*Bild
> > > >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:15:38 -0400
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Oh William, I like your
> > > >
> > > >Attitude/s
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Love & Dress, Kirsten
> > > >
> > > >PS:
> > > >
> > > >There is a pervasive sense of rootlessness and disorientation
> that
> >causes
> > > >many people to avoid contemplating their place in the universe
> and to
> > >focus
> > > >instead on the trivial concerns of consumerism.
> > > >
> > > >The lack of social consensus on cosmology in the modern world
> has
> >caused
> > > >many people to close off their thinking to large issues and
> long time
> > > >scales, so that small matters dominate their consciousness.
> > > >
> > > >In most traditional cultures, people's sense of identity and
> codes of
> > > >behavior are grounded in a cosmology that provides a picture of
> who
> >they
> > > >are, where they come from, and what their personal relationship
> to the
> > > >larger world should be. For more than 300 years, however,
> scientific
> > > >advances have tended to undermine traditional cosmologies while
>
> >offering
> > >an
> > > >image of the cosmos bereft of spiritual or mythic dimensions.
> > > >
> > > >Are you looking for an image of the cosmos consistent with what
> > >scientists
> > > >understand about the universe today. That symbol, known to the
> ancient
> > > >Greeks as a "uroboros," is the snake swallowing its tail. This:
> symbol
> >:
> > > >represents the universe as a continuity of vastly different
> size
> >scales,
> > > >with the swallowing of the tail representing the hoped-for
> unification
> >of
> > > >theories governing the largest and smallest scales.
> > > >
> > > >The size scales in the known universe encompass about 60 orders
> of
> > > >magnitude, from the vastness of the cosmic horizon to the
> subatomic
> > >Planck
> > > >scale, the smallest size allowed by relativity and quantum
> physics. Yet
> > > >people asked to visualize "the universe" tend to think of
> endless space
> > >and
> > > >uncountable stars and galaxies, while the human scale shrinks
> into
> > > >insignificance.
> > > >
> > > >Gute Nacht!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> >I would love to know what anyone here thinks
> > > >> >about the Deikmans' piece.
> > > >>
> > > >>Not much; as much nonsense as ever
> > > >>
> > > >>William
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>_______________________________________________
> > > >>info:
> > > >>www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > > >>
> > > >>post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > > >>
> > > >>dialogue facilitator:
> > > >>facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > > >>
> > > >>Administrator of the mailing list:
> > > >>admin@david-bohm.net
> > > >>
> > > >>_______________________________________________
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >info:
> > > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > > >
> > > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > > >
> > > >dialogue facilitator:
> > > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > > >
> > > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > > >
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> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >---------------------------------
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> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >info:
> > >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> > >
> > >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >dialogue facilitator:
> > >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >Administrator of the mailing list:
> > >admin@david-bohm.net
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Express yourself - download free Windows Live Messenger themes!
>
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> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
> >_______________________________________________
> >info:
> >www.david-bohm.org/mailman/listinfo/bohm_dialogue
> >
> >post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
> >
> >dialogue facilitator:
> >facilitator@david-bohm.net
> >
> >Administrator of the mailing list:
> >admin@david-bohm.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
> info:
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>
> post to: dialogue@david-bohm.net
>
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> _______________________________________________
From DStulberg at msw-law.com Fri Sep 22 19:34:57 2006
From: DStulberg at msw-law.com (Dorothy Stulberg)
Date: Sat Sep 23 20:28:20 2006
Subject: [Bohm_Dialogue] "Risky"
Message-ID: <0D25D6CD52646E4B992A5CAED007D